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To: St.Chuck
MPI: "So you are contending that everything Jesus said about the role of the Holy Spirit--( dwelling in the apostles and individual Christians reading what they wrote,ie: Scripture)--can be nullified by one word?"

St.C: "No. I am simply stating that what you say (not Jesus), is nullified."

Where is your authority for nullifying the Scriptures? I haven't seen you quoting any Scriptures that nullify what I wrote. Indeed, I am the only one who has quoted Scripture (the infallible words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, et.al.). You have merely given me your opinion with nothing to back it up. Provide the quotes where you say I have contradicted the Scriptures.

St.C: "No matter what synonyms you want to employ for the word useful,( profitable, advantageous,having beneficial results) it can never have the meaning you give it; useful can never mean personal interpretation as infallible authority."

You're confused. The only "infallible authority" are the Scriptures.

Those without the Spirit cannot understand Scriptural Truth, however, because it is spiritually discerned.

Do you think that is what "I" say?

No --- that is what the apostle Paul says to church member "brethren" in the church of God at Corinth.

He tells them this: "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. ... But the natural man (without the Holy Spirit), does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. ... but we have the mind of Christ."

I gave you the origional Greek word. Look it up for yourself. It's a predicate adjective that describes what the result of studying Scripture will be --- for those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells (as __Paul said__ in the Scriptures I quoted above).

St.C: "Furthermore, I am shocked that you would imply that Jesus said individual Christians reading what the apostles wrote would have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them."

Really??????? Where have you been? Are you not able to understand the Scriptures I've been quoting? And I have only given you the tip of the iceberg.

There is no such thing as a true Christian if the Spirit of God isn't living in him. A Christian is a "temple" for the Holy Spirit to dwell. Is that "foolishness" to you?

Do you think that is what "I" say?

No --- it is what the apostle Paul says:

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ (dwelling in him), he is not His. The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.." [Rom.8:9-17]

St.C: "There is absolutely no mention of Jesus telling anyone to write anything...."

Jesus told his apostles: ".. when the Spirit of Truth comes whom I will send you from the Father ... He will testify of Me. And YOU will bear witness because YOU have been with me from the beginning." [John 15:26-27]

320 posted on 07/08/2002 8:27:08 PM PDT by Matchett-PI
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To: Matchett-PI
My apologies for the delay in responding to you.

Where is your authority for nullifying scriptures?

Oh, come on. I have merely taken issue with your take on one verse.(2 Tim,3:16). I am not nullifying anything, nor do I think that I have any authority to. You know what Catholics believe regarding scripture. I am not going to swap bible verses with you. You have been around long enough to know what the Catholic position is, and know that the HRCC claims that it's doctrine is scripturally sound, and if you were genuinely curious you could find what you need.

Your confused. The only "infallible authority" are the scriptures.

I am not confused. You are mistaken. We strongly disagree as to what the infallible authority actually is. Until the time when you convert to Catholicism, we always will.

Those without the Spirit cannot understand scriptural truth, however, because it is spiritually discerned.

Precisely. I believe emphatically that the HRCC is "the mind of Christ" on this mortal coil. No need to trot out the scripture, because I'm sure you are very aware of it. The Holy Spirit has been with Christ's Church from the get go, and those souls who have been priveleged to receive God's grace through Mother Church's sacraments do indeed have the Holy Spirit " dwelling" within them.

This, remarkably, leads us back to where we began. When you popped into this thread, the discussion was centered upon Mother Theresa. Criticism of her activities, or lack thereof, originated from a poster who's views on Christianity are similar to yours. It was implied that Mother Theresa did not possess "the mind of Christ" as Paul described. Yet, to me, her life exemplified an awareness of God's constant presence. So, I concluded, that one is either unable to discern what it looks like to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within, or this particular poster's anti-Catholicism is so virulent that they would ignore the plain truth of the matter. The more charitable conclusion is the former choice, and if so, one is faced with the question of why they are unable to discern it. When every one else, even secularist's and pagan's can recognize the sanctity of this woman, why can't the scripture quoting,regenerated, Calvinist type of Christian? And what else can't they discern? We've gone over 2 TIm 3:16 and that fundamental error. Is it everything? Is it a false gospel that so blinds to reality? Things that make you go hmmm.

I'm done here.

321 posted on 07/10/2002 9:35:47 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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