Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: P_Marlowe
I am not sure if I bumped you to this ..but it covers part of our conversation..Piper is an awesome writer
4 posted on 05/03/2002 7:07:24 PM PDT by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies ]


To: RnMomof7, Corin stormhands, Xzins, Revelation 911, winstonchurchill
Therefore I affirm with John 3:16 and 1 Timothy 2:4 that God loves the world with a deep compassion that desires the salvation of all men.

So, will you know admit that those passages clearly teach that?

Yet I also affirm that God has chosen from before the foundation of the world whom he will save from sin.

Thus, we have a problem in what God clearly wrote and what Piper thinks

Since not all people are saved we must choose whether we believe (with the Arminians) that God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to human self-determination or whether we believe (with the Calvinists) that God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to the glorification of his sovereign grace (Ephesians 1:6,12,14; Romans 9:22-23).

Note, how he quickly forgets God's clear statement that He wants all men saved!

This decision should not be made on the basis of metaphysical assumptions about what we think human accountability requires.

What he means, is that I am allowed to base it on my metaphysical assumptions

It should be made on the basis of what the scriptures teach.

That is right! And what do Jn.3:16 and 1Tim.2:4 teach?

I do not find in the Bible that human beings have the ultimate power of self-determination.

It is not about human self-determination but as you already conceded God's stated will

< As far as I can tell it is a philosophical inference based on metaphysical presuppositions.

Yes, that is exactly what Calvinism is!

On the other hand this book aims to show that the sovereignty of God's grace in salvation is taught in Scripture.

Not from scripture it doesn't and not without denying clear scripture that teach God wants man to be saved.

My contribution has simply been to show that God's will for all people to be saved is not at odds with the sovereignty of God's grace in election.

Your contribution is to reject clear scripture that states the opposite of what you are teaching

That is, my answer to the above question about what restrains God's will to save all people is his supreme commitment to uphold and display the full range of his glory through the sovereign demonstration of his wrath and mercy for the enjoyment of his elect and believing people from every tribe and tongue and nation.

So, all Piper has decided is that God's ego is greater then God's love. That is not the God of the Bible. God's glory comes from the great love He displayed on the Cross and the humility it represents (Phil.2)

Ofcourse, there is always the secret council to appeal to as the last resort, after all, we only have the revealed will of God in the Scriptures, God is only fooling us with that!

5 posted on 05/04/2002 1:37:22 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

To: RnMomof7,Xzins, corin stormhands, Maestro, winstonchurchill, Revelation 9:11
Therefore I affirm with John 3:16 and 1 Timothy 2:4 that God loves the world with a deep compassion that desires the salvation of all men. Yet I also affirm that God has chosen from before the foundation of the world whom he will save from sin. Since not all people are saved we must choose whether we believe (with the Arminians) that God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to human self-determination or whether we believe (with the Calvinists) that God's will to save all people is restrained by his commitment to the glorification of his sovereign grace (Ephesians 1:6,12,14; Romans 9:22-23).

No, we must choose to believe what Scripture says not what Calvinist want it to say!

Those verses he cites do not limit any election to salvation! All those who are saved will be to the praise of God's glory!

Only a Calvinist would have God going against His own will and thing nothing was wrong with that!

7 posted on 05/23/2002 1:42:51 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson