Hell Revisited: The True Wages of Sin

The common hell theory is an amalgimation of pagan beliefs. With it, religious leaders through the ages learned that they could use fear to control people. This fear entered the world through the serpent's deception that God is evil. Adam described his mistrust of God in Genesis 3:10, saying,
"I heard Thy voice in the garden and was afraid and hid myself."

The question is, 'Does God rule by fear, or does fear hinder our relationship to God?' Before Adam fell, we see him in perfect communication with God, his superior, and creation, his dominion.

It's my contention that most religions have employed fear to control and manipulate their subjects. Since we understand the attributes of God, shouldn't Christianity stand out from the rest? Let's take the subject of hell. The Hindu, Persian, Egyptian and Christian Theologians all have the essentially same view of hell. Is it possible that our concept of hell is tainted by pagan philosophy in the same way that the serpent tainted Adam's concept of God?

Centuries before the law of God came to Moses, the Egyptians had established religious doctrine concerning life after death. For them, the Osiris was the god of the underworld and the living. when one died, the person's heart was weighed on a balance to decide if he/she was worthy or unworthy. If found unworthy, he/she was cast into a pit where the Hippopotymus God was waiting to torment them.

Zoroaster was a 7th century teacher and prophet who taught that the wicked fell from a judges bridge into a world of evil thoughts, deeds and torment perpetually.

For the Greeks, Pluto was the ruler of hell, sitting upon a throne of sulfer with a pitchfork and the keys to his abode, along with his trusty three-headed dog.

In Islam, the sinner wears a cload of fire, drinking scalding water and puss, confined in a place of torment where one can either perish or escape. They are beaten !!!!!!!!

Chinese Buddhism's hell has 136 regions below the earth. The lowest is a burning hell.

The fear behind these concepts has been the key ingredient in perpetuating subservant behavior. Is Christianity guilty of the same spiritual intimidation as the pagan religions? If so, how did we arrive there? Is God behind it?

The Latin world, the Roman Catholic Church and papal system around the forth century AD sought combine all these into one doctrine in order to more successfully evangelize and introduce Christianity in a way that those unfamiliar with Christianity could relate to the concept of hell. Augustine later reasoned that there was a temporary purging of the soul in a place called purgatory, borrowing his teaching from pagan philosophers.

The concept of hell had become so confusing that Dante, (1265-1321ad.), wrote a poem called the Divine Comedy, opening mocking these belief systems with one so outragious that perhaps religion would get a grip! Dante's work, based on Virgil and Plato (pagan philosophers), described an elaborate picture of the seven layers of hell -- each with its own brand of torture. His political statement backfired when the church adopted it as having 'a measure of devine truth'.

So we come to the question, 'What is the penalty for the wicked? Is it anything like these?'

Hell appears 31 times in the Old Covenant. Its original old english meaning was to conceal, to hide or cover. It refered to a hole in the ground that was covered up, or a grave. Whe the Jews roofed a house, they 'helled' it, and when they cooked potatoes underground, they put them into 'hell'.

The Hebrew word for hell is 'sheol'. It is used 65 times in the Old Covenant, and is only translated as 'hell' 31 times, compared to 31 times translated 'grave' and three times 'pit'. Why the difference? Based on pagan presuppositions, translators used the word 'hell' when it referred to wicked people, and 'grave' or 'pit' when it applied to righteous people. Therefore in the Old Covenant, the same fate, sheol, applied to both the righteous and the wicked!

Our word was first applied to Jacob (Gen 37:35) "For I will go down into my grave (sheol) mourning for my son." Did Jacob expect to go to hell?

In Deut 32:22, hell is first used in a derogatory sense, as God is angry in the context, refering to a fire burning to the lowest hell.

For a fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol (the grave, or a pit), And consumes the earth with its yield, And sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me!

PS 89:48 says, "Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave." What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

Eccl 9:10 says, "for there is no work nor devise nor knowledge nor wisdom in sheol.

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.

Solomon here encourages us, the reader, to work hard. He then calmly informs us that we are going to hell! Gee, thanks dad.

Is 57:9 "You have journeyed to the king with oil And increased your perfumes; You have sent your envoys a great distance And made them go down to Sheol.

Even our friend Jonah found himself in hell in Jonah 2:2 and he said,
"I called out of my distress to the LORD, And He answered me. I cried for help from the depth of Sheol; You heard my voice."
Jonah truly though he was in his grave, but nothing more.

I would suggest that the Old Testament on its own merits teaches nothing about eternal torture, and that to the Old Covenant Jew,
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezek 18:4)
In their understanding, hell, simply refered to the grave.

In the New Covenant, hell is used only 23 times; the word hades is translated 'hell' 10 times, gehenna 12 times and Tartaros one time.

Hades is the New Testament word for sheol, both according to the septuagint and New Covenant quotation of Old Covenant scripture; Acts 2:27 quotes Psalm 16:10, "BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY
Yet we come to passages like Luke 16:19-31 which seem to imply torture by fire:

19 "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27 "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house-- 28 for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29 "But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Context plays allot into the interpretation of this parable. In Luke 15:1-2 The Pharasees are grumbling that Jesus is spending time with sinners. Jesus then launches into a diatribe of parables relating to one another. This first parable is of the lost sheep. The second is the lost coin. The third is the lost son. The fourth is the lost reputation. In the fifth, verse 19-31 is a lost inheritance.

Contextually the rich man represented most of the Jewish nation and the poor man represented the publicans and sinners that Jesus was spending time with. This is a picture of the torment of judgement for the Jewish nation in losing their place in God's favor. The flame represents judgement, which is the most common typology. The great chasm is the separation of the New and Old Covenants.

Abraham's bosom represents faith -- something the unbelieving Jewish nation knew nothing of. Because they did not share Abraham's faith, they came under the judgement of God when lambs and bulls could no longer atone for sin.

It's interesting that Abraham calls him 'child'. This is further indicative that the rich man is a Jew.

Once an unbeliever dies, they are not available for an interview. Jesus is giving the Pharasees a parabolic picture of the sting of death, and what it must be like to have rejected the cornerstone and lose out on the resurrection. He never taught perpetual torment literally, as we will discover.

2 Peter 2:4 says,
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

This is the only occasion of the word tartarow - used in Greek mythology to describe a prison or place of darkness. In our verse it is translated hell, yet tartarow cannot mean the grave, as these dark angels did not die there. I believe this verse is either talking about demons who were cast out by believers or the initial expultion of one third of the angels.

Gehenna was not mythological, but a real place. It was The Valley of Hinnon, just outside the southwest wall of Jerusalem and outside the refuse gate. Gehenna was literally the city dump for Jerusalem. Fires were kept continually burning in it to assure that everything and everyone thrown there was totally destroyed. It's both symbolic and interesting that the dead bodies of criminals whom the Jews judged unworthy of resurrection were thrown there. The contemporaries of Jesus would as easily understand the reference as we understand the electric chair.

8 "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell (Gehenna).

An accurate paraphrase would be, "It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fires of the Valley of Hinnon." Incidently, which part of the verse is symbolic?
Can we cut a verse in half and claim one side is symbolic and one is literal?

Death is a judgement from God. Jesus knew that the mental picture of the burning garbage dump would inspire a passion to not end up there. Both Jesus and Paul employed strong language like this to emphasize their message.

The following are brief and probably over-simplistic explanations of various biblical expressions, and each one deserves a study and attention. Yet for the sake of readability, here is what I have found these expressions to represent:

A very interesting thing about our verse in Matthew 18:8 are the words 'to be cast', or ballo, is written in the infinitive mood which means that the casting is continual and not a one-time event. Wow -- It must be a glich in the Matrix. Why would a person be cast in to everlasting fire more than once? Perhaps the reason is that fire is for purging, for completely destroying the chaff in our lives.

The result of the fire has everlasting (or age lasting) consequenses. As preterists, we know that 'aion' represents 'age', yet for futurists it is the end of the world. Aionion, the Greek word for everlasting, represents an 'age lasting' duration, which we understand is not an indefinate period of time.

Jesus was not teaching that people are worms. This teaching most likely gained popularity as Jacob was called a worm in the Old Covenant. But Jesus was talking about 'their' worm, the worm that continually feeds on the flesh of people. We can see this better by looking at the scripture from which he quoted:

Isaiah 66:24
Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

Isaiah identifies the worm as belonging to a corpse. When thrown into outside the refuse gate, a body that wasn't immediately consumed by (unquenchable) fire was eaten by worms (lit. maggots).

An "Unquenchable fire" refers to a fire that is not quenched until it has consumed all that can be consumed. A good example of this is in Matthew 3:12, where Jesus equates the unquenchable fire due to sinners to chaff burned outside of the barn. The farmer wants the chaff to burn completely.

Mark 9:43, like Matthew 18:8-9, also includes the term 'unquenchable fire', saying,
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire."

God brought unquenchable fire against Sodom and Gammorah. Are they still burning today? No. But everything that could be burned in Sodom and Gammorah was burned, so the term 'unquenchable fire' was rightly used.

Heb 10:26-27 says,
"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES."
Simply stated, when we blatantly sin, we can expect a fiery judgement

Brimstone, (or sulfer), is defined as 'divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease'. Sulfur was considered to the Greeks to be a cleansing agent. This is probably because it expands the pores of the skin to allow it to be cleansed.

It also is the neuter form of theios (divinity, or the Godhead). I mention this to say that "our God is a consuming fire" (Heb 12:29) -- it's not Satan's fire that burns us. Mark 9:49 says,
"For everyone will be salted with fire." We all go through the fire, and this judgement is a purifying agent.

40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

As the tares are gathered at the end of the age (70AD), the furnace of fire was used to describe the punishment to the generation of Jews whom crucified Christ. It was in that place where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"His rock will pass away because of panic, And his princes will be terrified at the standard," Declares the LORD, whose fire is in Zion and whose furnace is in Jerusalem.

"Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth"

Think of this; did 'that generation' of Jews partially fulfill that prophecy in Acts 7:53-54 after Steven railed against the Jews in his famous rebuke?

52 (Stephen talking) "Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 ...you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it." 54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him.

• The Lake of Fire

Revelation 2:11
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Here's my question; how can a person not be hurt by death?! It suggests that this dying is not of our person, but of something else.

Revelation 21:8
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Have you ever been cowardly? Unbelieving? Immoral? Have you ever lied? I have some very bad news for you... If you haven't yet, you will experience the lake of fire, or 'second death'. But take heart, this is the same fire of God that has roasted sinners like you and me for a long time. Remember that brimstone purifies.

Yet it could also be argued that this scripture is not for us today, but the 'terminal generation' of 30-70AD. Even so, we have people encountering the lake of fire not for rejecting Christ or receiving 'the mark', but for being fearful, or lying. Could this include Christians? It does say 'all liars', and certainly some of the early saints had told a lie after becoming Christian. We know that Peter lied at least three times while warming himself at a pagan fire.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Who has a part in the first resurrection? Positionally, if we have made Christ the sacrifice for our sins, the resurrection both awaits the end of our life and took place in the spiritual realm in 70AD. The reason the second death cannot either hurt or overpower us is because of the blood of Christ that covers us.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Finally, this verse brings the controvercial question, 'Is Satan dead?' Consider this: If people can survive the 'second death', or 'lake of fire', do you think that Satan, the Devil, Lucifer and the entire demonic heirarchy might have managed to survive it? Who was 'the devil who deceived them'? Was it a demon alone that was cast into the lake? Do we have practical evidence of a demonic existance today?

We have only five references to this lake, and all in Revelation, so to place too much emphasis on these scriptures, I think, is dangerous.

"Tormented Day and Night Forever and Ever"
As we have shown, God Himself is the torment of the enemy.

"Everlasting Punishment"
This is not everlasting punishing, but punishment. Death is the punishment. Death is everlasting -- there is no going back.

"Everlasting Destruction"
Likewise, this is not everlasting destructing, but destruction. Once something is destroyed, it cannot be destroyed any longer.

"The Punishment of Eternal Fire"
comes from Jude 7, which says,
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

The contrast here is with Sodom and Gommorrah, which are not still burning today. If it were, 'eternal fire' would be a truly frightening expression.

To say that hell is simply death implies that the soul is not immortal unless salvaged by God. Some oriental philosophies taught that departed souls reincarnate in other bodies. Other ancient philosophies taught that departed souls rise to the physical universe, and yet others to a heavenly universe.

Plato's work, Phaedo, had taught the immortality of the soul. This, like many concepts of hell, came from Babylonian, Greek and Egyptian philosophy. He wrote, "Death is merely the separation of the soul from the body."

Origen, 185-254AD, blatantly introduced neoplatonism, calling himself a neoplatonist who believes in the immortality of the soul.

Tertullian, 155-220AD, writes, "For some things are know even by nature. The immortality of the soul, for instance, is held by many. I may use therefore the opinion of Plato when he declares that every soul is immortal." Bye bye Sola Scriptura!

Justin Martyr, however, rejected neo-platanism, along with others like Arnobias, of 284-305AD. He spoke against theologians that the soul is immortal, saying that contemporary teachers were, "carried away with an extravigant opinion of themselves, (saying) that the soul is immortal." He consider it an abuse of power.

Augustine, 354-430AD, in 'The City of God', established indelably the concept of the immortal soul into the church world.

In the middle ages, those who rejected the idea was branded a heretic. In 1513, the Fifth Lateran Cousel of 1513 issued a decree,

Whereas, in our days some have dared to assert, concerning the nature of the reasonable soul, that it is mortal, or one and the same in all men; and some, rashly philosophizing, declare this to be true, at least according to philosophy: We, with the approbation of the sacred council, do condemn and reprobate all those who assert that the intellectual soul is mortal, or one and the same in all men, and those who call these things in question; seeing that the soul is not only truly, and of itself, and essentially the form of the human body, as is expressed in the canon of Pope Clement V, published in the general council of Vienne, but likewise immortal...and we strictly inhibit all from dogmatizing otherwise, and we decree that all who adhere to the like assertions shall be shunned and punished as heretics.”
Among the punishments for teaching these things was death!

Martin Luther declared that the Bible did not teach the immortality of the soul. Luther held that the soul died with the body, and that the God would raise first the one, then the other. 1522, It is probable, in my opinion, that with very few exceptions indeed, the dead sleep in utter insensability until the day of judgement. On what authority can it be said that the souls of the dead may not sleep. In the same way that the living pass in profound slumber between their down-lying at night to their up-rising in the morning."

William Tyndale wrote, "In putting departed souls in heaven , hell or purgatory, you destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul proved the resurrection. The true faith putteth the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers denying that, did put that souls did ever live." (Vide "A Declaration, page 28) This is an interesting point; how can a person rise from the dead if they aren't dead, or even in the grave?

Genesis 2:7 teaches us that man does not have a soul, but is a soul. (nephesh)
Genesis 1:21 shows us that all animals are living souls (nephesh)

The soul can indeed die, and only the resurrection can grant us life after death.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, (not conscious eternal torment), but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, (just perish?), but have eternal life.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 Tim 6:16 (God) alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Romans 2:7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek fo glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

Gen 2:16-17 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" (God did not want man to partake of the tree of life and thus make himself immortal)

Just as Satan is not on the same playing field as God, hell is not on the same playing field as heaven.

My Response to Hell

I had never studied hell, but this is very good. I knew nothing other than an eternal torment by fire. What you suppose seems accurate but the brainwashed questions still remain.

1. Does simple death seem enough to the modern man to be considered as punishment?
2. What does the sinner truly have to fear if he simply dies?
3. Do all evil men who die still rise to stand before Christ to bow the knee to Him and then get sent back to the same fate already received, the grave?
4. If the evil die, and then are awake in some spiritual realm to be judged by Christ, doesn't that show that "THE resurrection" is a perpetual occurrence for all men? If not then the soul IS immortal.

Are these valid questions?
Does anyone else ask them?
Here is my guessed answer. I am open to a response.

To question 1&2:
All men will die. It doesn't matter if we do not understand the finality of death because of modern desensitization. God saw it as fitting enough for sin. The difference and joy and grace lies in knowing that we who cherish life, have it eternally after death. After all, aren't the wicked even here for OUR glory? So that we might realize the grace given to us and turn to Christ?

"Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction, Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory,"

So what they do not realize is not the point. But what we, the elect DO realize, is.

Question 3&4:

I do not believe any go before the Lord in judgment. That was a one time event. Why do we lift the judgment seat of Christ out of the context of the "end of the age" and apply it to us? We are judged at belief and receive our salvation THEN, not at death. It is one BIG reason our covenant is PERFECT. And it is what Paul and the 1st century Christians hoped for!

"Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Positional FOR THEM. Reality NOW for us!

It was taught as if a current reality for them, but we know in the context of all scripture that they did not receive it until the resurrection. BUT THE RESURRECTION IS PASSED and a New, more perfect covenant remained. So are we in the same POSITIONAL boat?
Certainly NOT!
Lest we have NO MORE HOPE than Paul and them in that day, rendering the hope of those who "are alive and remain" hopeless in AD 70!!

The Old Covenant saints and sinners had to rise, in AD 70, to see there Lord and bow before the maker of the New Covenant. Once that took place, there is no need to perpetually repeat it for every individual, because are rewards are handed out instantly after our death based on our place in life and our rejection/acceptance of the perfect sacrifice. The judgment seat was a ONE TIME event.

"Phi 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phi 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. "

Guess what, everyone in one way, shape or form DID! Does Every mean every? Did every eye on the planet see Him in AD 70 (a common dispensational argument). Does God love ALL men equally? Does He want ALL to be saved? (Or all elect?)

Let's not be guilty of our own frustrations we have against the dispensational, free-will teachings.

The judgment, knee bowing passage was terminal. This is why.

God the Father is the ruler and Judge. Christ the Son WAS at that era, place in time of Covenant shift.

"1Co 15:27 "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one."

And again:

"Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, Eph 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; Eph 2:18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father."
NOTE: The work taking place in the covenant shift was to reconcile ALL TO THE FATHER. This is the truth of the New Covenant.

Again:

"Col 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. Col 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Col 1:21 And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him,"
NOTE: Who is the last Him? God the Father.

"Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? "

We are subject to the Father.

All bible verses applying subjectivity and dominion to and through Christ applied to the millennium and the time until Christ handed over the kingdom to the Father.

This HAPPENED in AD 70!!

Therefore our faith in the Son, Jesus, brings us into subjection and the favor and communion with The Father!! Jesus' work is done, completed, accomplished. God judges the individual in their hearts and we WILL NOT face the judgment seat of the Christ who is Himself subject to the Father and has ALREADY handed over the kingdom to Him!

This article doesn't stand up well under an ordinary analysis:

Posted on 5/2/02 9:17 AM Pacific by nate4one

Part One - The Propaganda of Fear

o Religious Tyranny

The common hell theory is an amalgimation of pagan beliefs. With it, religious leaders

through the ages learned that they could use fear to control people.

These sentences apparently constitute the author's thesis. Let us temporarily

ignore whether they are legitimate. By his next statements, he completely

destroys his thesis.

He starts by discussing "Pagan beliefs," and "religious

leaders" who "use fear to control people." Neither of these concepts has

anything to do with the God of the Bible, or His followers.

This fear entered the world through the serpent's deception that God is evil.

The serpent's deception was NOT that "God is evil," rather it was

that Adam and Eve would "not surely die" (if they ate of the tree of

knowledge of good and evil) but would instead "be as gods."

Adam described his mistrust of God in Genesis 3:10, saying, "I heard Thy

voice in the garden and was afraid and hid myself."

Adam did not "distrust God," he "was afraid," because "he knew that

they were naked." (Because they had eaten of the tree of knowledge

of good and evil.)

The question is, 'Does God rule by fear, or does fear hinder our relationship to God?'

Of course, the author knows the answer, and states it thus:

Before Adam fell, we see him in perfect communication with God, his superior,

and creation, his dominion.

The author knows the truth, and knows that we know it. Yet, he continues

on, as if his original thesis was actually true.

It's my contention that most religions have employed fear to control and manipulate their

subjects.

But NOT Judeo-Christianity.

Since we understand the attributes of God, shouldn't Christianity stand out from

the rest?

Clearly, it does.

Let's take the subject of hell. The Hindu, Persian, Egyptian and Christian

Theologians all have the essentially same view of hell.

No, they don't.

Is it possible that our concept of hell is tainted by pagan philosophy in

the same way that the serpent tainted Adam's concept of God?

We have seen (above) that the serpent DIDN'T "taint"

Adam's "concept of God."

Centuries before the law of God came to Moses, the Egyptians had established religious

doctrine concerning life after death. For them, the Osiris was the god of the underworld and

the living. when one died, the person's heart was weighed on a balance to decide if he/she

was worthy or unworthy. If found unworthy, he/she was cast into a pit where the

Hippopotymus God was waiting to torment them.

Of course, this bears no relationship with the Biblical concept of judgement, nor Hell.

It is more like the ideas commonly found in cartoons.

Zoroaster was a 7th century teacher and prophet who taught that the wicked fell from a

judges bridge into a world of evil thoughts, deeds and torment perpetually.

In Islam, the sinner wears a cload of fire, drinking scalding water and puss, confined in a

place of torment where one can either perish or escape. They are beaten !!!!!!!!

Both Zoroastrianism and Islam started 700 years AFTER the time of Christ,

and could have had absolutely NO impact on His teachings.

Chinese Buddhism's hell has 136 regions below the earth. The lowest is a burning hell.

For the Greeks, Pluto was the ruler of hell, sitting upon a throne of sulfer with a pitchfork

and the keys to his abode, along with his trusty three-headed dog.

Although earlier than Christianity, Greek "theology" had no relationship

with the teachings of Jesus.

The fear behind these concepts has been the key ingredient in perpetuating subservant

behavior. Is Christianity guilty of the same spiritual intimidation as the pagan religions? If

so, how did we arrive there? Is God behind it?

Absolutely not.

Nate: The rest of it is no better. Do you REALLY want more?

We are arguing the same point, but you are misunderstanding me. The article misunderstood just about everything and now you are misunderstanding me and the Bible.

"So you Dad is capable of handing you a sentance of eternal torment?"

No, because my earthly father does not have that type of power. You see most things on earth are reflections of God and his works and attributes. For example, earthly love is a reflection of God's love. It is not nearly as strong and unconditional, but it is a way for us, on earth, to somewhat comprehend God's love for us. We won't truly nad fully understand this until we are in heaven, but until then, it's like a preview. In this way, a good earthly father is a reflection of our Heavenly Father. He may punish me, and I fear this punishment out of shame of letting him down and hurting him, but this fear teaches me humility and it is important for us to see our sins. That is what the Old Testament mainly teaches: showing us our sins. This is vital because it is the means of necessity for the Gospel.

"God is the Father to all believers, and they should fear His rod of correction, but then also accept and humble themselves under it!"

You see - these go hand-in-hand. I think you unerstand this.

"The wickedare like sheep wandering toward the cliff."

But God cares for his flock and is constantly trying to pull them back, until their death and judgment.

"They care not about life and the eternal, and are given their wish. DEATH eternal. Not torment eternal."

Hell is not annihilation. It is constant dieing. Mark 9:42-48 speaks of the worm that does not die. That worm is the unbeliever - there is no relief. 2 Thesselonians describes hell as even worse in chapter 1, verses 7-9, not only speaking of this constant destruction without ever actually being destroyed, but also going into this absence of God. You see, we do not know what it is like to be totally without God. He provides rain and sun for the unbelievers just as much as the believers. He is constantly trying to pull them towards Him. He loves them and desires them. It is this darkness (God is the light of the world) that is the true and worsdt horror of hell. Matthew 25:41 describes hell as eternal torment and this loss of God's presence in saying, "Then he will say to those on his left [unbelievers], 'Depart from me, you are cursed, into eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

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