Posted on 04/21/2002 6:12:38 AM PDT by RnMomof7
The word "atonement" is used many times in the Old Testament but only once in the New Testament: in Romans 5:11 -- that is, in the King James Version. The word "atonement" is a theological term which is rather unusual. Most of the terms or words used to describe Scriptural doctrines in the English language are words which have been derived either from the Greek or from the Latin. But that is not true for the word "atonement." This word is of English or Anglo-Saxon origin. It is composed of two words: "at" and "one." The word "atonement" suggests, therefore, a dwelling-together, a making one out of that which had been divided.
One of the basic ideas of the Hebrew and Greek words for "atonement" is that of covering. The atonement is that which covers or hides. "Atonement" represents a debt which is paid, and thus "covered." One might illustrate this idea by speaking of a debt at a bank. If a person is unable to make payment on the debt which he owes to the bank, and if a friend volunteers to pay this debt for him, then that debt is covered and the man is free from all obligation. Such is the idea of atonement.
The word "atonement" as a theological term treats the relationship which exists between God and man. The word suggests, in the first place, that there is a unity or oneness between God and man -- an "at-one-ment." Secondly, however, the word implies that there once was something which divided these two. That something was the sin of man in which he walked in rebellion against God. Thirdly, atonement reminds that a way has been found to unite the two, God and man, by means of a payment which removes the guilt of sin. Finally, there is implied in the word "atonement" a consciousness within a person that the evil which formerly divided has now been removed.
The second word we ought to understand is the word "limited" as it is used to describe the atonement. The word is somewhat unfortunate since it can easily be misunderstood. When we speak of the "limited atonement" of Christ, we do not mean that the atonement is at all limited as far as its power is concerned. The word "limited" is used rather to describe the Scriptural truth that the atonement does not cover all men, but only a certain group -- the elect of God chosen before the foundation of this world. It is this truth that we must consider.
The atonement refers to the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, which death serves as payment for the guilt of sin.
The question arises repeatedly, "For whom did Christ die?"
You may know that there are those, sometimes called "Arminian" (or "freewillists"), who teach that Christ died for all men without exception. This idea has become very popular -- even within Reformed circles where historically it was condemned. It is popular because it appeals to man -- though it is not based upon Scripture.
The second of the "Five Points of Arminianism," written in 1610 in the Netherlands, declares this about the atonement of Christ, "That agreeably thereto Jesus Christ, the Savior of the World, died for all men and for every man, so that He has obtained for them all by His death on the cross redemption and forgiveness of sins, yet that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins except the believer according to the Word of the Gospel in John 3:16: 'God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.' And, in the First Epistle of John 2:2, 'And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.'"
The Arminian understands the atonement of the cross thus: it is universal, i.e., for all. A large number of gospel hymns include this same idea. These portray a Christ Who died for all men -- and now He awaits the reaction and response of the sinner.
This error of the Arminian, however, is not taught in the Bible. That Christ died only for a specific group, called in Scripture "the elect," is evident from many passages in Holy Writ. A clear statement concerning the extent of the work of Christ was given to Joseph, the husband of Mary, in a dream. The angel said to Joseph, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). The name "Jesus" itself is derived from two words meaning "Jehovah saves." The name "Jesus" is therefore an extremely beautiful and descriptive name. It reminds of that Scriptural truth that if a people are to be saved from their sins, it is Jehovah Who must save them. No dead sinner can deliver himself from his sins. Jehovah, the unchangeable God, alone can do that. Now the angel specifically informs Joseph that the babe to be born of the Virgin Mary is to be called "Jesus," for He shall save His people from their sins. His work will be to deliver a specific people, His people. The work of salvation, then, does not cover all men, but is limited to His people.
Another passage of Scripture which indicates the extent of the atonement of the cross is John 10. In verse 11 Jesus says, "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd layeth down His life for the sheep." Again in verse 15 Jesus declares, "I lay down my life for the sheep." And in contrast to this willing sacrifice for His sheep, there is the fact presented in verse 26 that some are not Jesus' sheep. Jesus says, "But ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep." The distinction which Jesus makes is very clear. He speaks of two groups of people: His sheep, and those which are not His sheep. For the former group, Jesus lays down His life; He dies for His sheep. For the latter group, Jesus does not die; they are not His sheep. Therefore, too, they do not believe on Him. Again here it is very clear that the payment which Jesus made for sin upon the cross is a payment for a specific group of people -- not a payment for the sins of everyone.
Again we read in John 17:9, "I pray for them; I pray not for the world; I pray for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine." Jesus is speaking here not only of His disciples, but also of all those who believe on His Name through their word (see verse 20). Jesus insists that He prays only for those whom the Father had given to Him. He will not pray for the world. The conclusion ought to be obvious. Those for whom Jesus prays are those for whom presently He will on the cross. He does not pray for the world because He did not die for them. Surely, had He died for every man, He would pray for them too.
To one final passage I call your attention. We read in Romans 8:32, "He spared not His own Son but delivered Him up for us all -- how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?" Notice that the apostle emphasizes that God gave not His Son for all, but for us all. There is an obvious difference. The "us" refers to the church at Rome -- and by extension, to the church of all ages. The "all" in this text represents the total number of the church of God. Christ died for them.
There are, however, a group of passages in the Bible that seem to substantiate the idea of a universal atonement. One of the most often quoted is I John 2:2: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Or there is that well-known text of John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." And in John 6:51 Jesus says, "And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." There are other passages which express a similar thought.
The question in each of these texts is the proper interpretation of the words "all" and "world." One who studies Scripture even superficially soon finds that these two words do not always mean every individual who lives or has lived on the earth. Repeatedly the words are used to point to a definite and limited group. I give only a few illustrations of that. I have already quoted from John 17:9 where Jesus declares, "I pray for them; I pray not for the world." Obviously the term "world" in this passage refers only to the total number of the reprobate wicked. Jesus does not pray for that "world." But also in Scripture the term "world" refers to the totality of God's chosen people. That is true in John 3:16 and similar passages. Or one reads in Romans 5:18, "Therefore, as by the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one, the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Now obviously, the "all men" who receive the free gift of justification does not include every man on the earth. This is a particular group; it is every member of the body of Christ. So also one must interpret
I John 2:2. Christ is presented there as the propitiation for our sins, that is, for the sins of the apostle and of those whom he addresses; but also Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world -- for all those of all ages who have been given Him of the Father.
Because the doctrine of "limited" atonement is a Scriptural truth, we find it expressed also in the confessions of the Reformed churches. The Heidelberg Catechism, for example, says this in Question and Answer 40: "Why was it necessary for Christ to humble Himself, even unto death? Because with respect to the justice and truth of God, satisfaction for our sins can be made no otherwise than by the death of the Son of God." And the Westminster Confession, chapter 8, paragraph 5, says, "The Lord Jesus by His perfect obedience and sacrifice of Himself which He through the eternal spirit once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of His Father and purchased not only reconciliation but an everlasting inheritance in the Kingdom of Heaven for all those whom the Father hath given unto Him."
This truth is significant and important in the life of the church and in the lives of its individual members.
In the first place, it gives to the child of God the full assurance of his salvation. If Christ did indeed die for every man that ever lived, I could never be certain of my own salvation. If Christ died for all, and so very many perish, what certainty do I have that I shall be saved? You see, such a view, which is also unscriptural, can only leave one in doubt about his salvation.
But now, in light of the testimony of Scripture itself, one can know with certainty whether he is saved and will enter into heavenly glory. Jesus died for the sins of His own people -- those given to Him by the Father. When Jesus dies for them, they also receive His Spirit, Who works in their hearts that life which Christ merited for them. Such are converted, confessing before God and man that they belong to Christ. These are they who cry out in heartfelt repentance, "Oh, God, be merciful to me, the sinner!" And these have the assurance of the forgiveness of sin and the certainty of eternal life in heaven. None can take that certainty away from them. None can destroy their faith. These will not fall away from that grace of God once given to them. These do find comfort and assurance in their confession, "Jesus died for me."
But even more important, this truth of Scripture that Jesus dies only for the sins of His own people, is the only truth which exalts the power and glory of the Name of God. Any other divergent view detracts from the glory of His Name. Any view of the atonement which suggests that the ultimate decision concerning one's salvation rests with man, detracts from the power and glory of God. God does not share His power and glory with any! He is God alone! He has absolute power. He determines the beginning from the end. He determines the final destiny of every creature -- and He does so in harmony with His perfect righteousness.
When one properly considers the fact of the atonement; when one understands that he for whom Christ died shall surely be saved -- he cannot help but glorify the Name of God Who has worked such wonders!
My point is that the NT the greek word cosmos, world, can be used in a precise sense to mean every people without exception, it can be used figuratively to mean the world system, or it can be used figuratively (hyperbole) as illustrated in the passage.
Jesus uses hyperbole -- otherwise any of us who have lusted should either pluck our eyes out or be disobedient to Jesus.
I don't personally take the "world passages" on the atonement in a limited sense but I can see the Reformed argument that world does not always mean world in the sense of everybody without exception.
The proper method of interpretation is to [1] understand the range of meanings a word may have; and [2] select the meaaning that best fits the text. Example the word "wave" can mean a number of things: [1] a greeting gesture; [2] a crest of water; [3] a hairdo; [4] a Tulane fan (if preceeded by Green). If I say I love to surf the waves. You do not expect me to he surfboarding on Benny Hinn's hair!
I'll take it your implicit answer is yes, it is still sufficient for them.
Jesus said, "It is finished." He did not say, "it has just begun."
There can be little question of the veracity of that statement.
A good example is Billy Graham, who in meetings with world leaders, has espoused some terrible heresies.
resulting in their swift destruction [greek = apoleia -- destruction, utter ruin, hell].
Is this your assessment of Bill Graham's future? It was the assessment of the future of these false teachers who were "bought" by Christ.
Verse 1. But there were false prophets also among the people,.... As well as holy men of God, who gave out prophecies, by the inspiration and impulse of the Holy Spirit; that is, among the people of the Jews, God's professing people, whose God was the Lord, and who had chosen them to be a special and peculiar people, above all people of the earth; and had distinguished them by his favours from all others: among these, though the Syriac version reads "in the world," there were false prophets, who ran, and were not sent; and who prophesied, and the Lord spake not to them: of these there were many in Jeremiah's time, and in the times of Ezekiel; and in Ahab's time, besides the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal, slain by Elijah, there were four hundred that called themselves the prophets of the Lord; among whom went forth a lying spirit, encouraging Ahab to go up to Ramoth Gilead, promising him prosperity and success; Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah, with whom Micaiah, the true prophet, had much contention, was at the head of them; and such there were among that people in all ages, until the times of Christ, and in his likewise; see Matthew 7:15 now from these, by an easy transition, the apostle proceeds to another part of his design in this epistle, to describe the characters of false teachers under the present dispensation, that saints may beware, and avoid their pernicious principles and practices:
even as there shall be false teachers among you; which need not to be wondered at, or stumble any, it being no new or strange thing, but what was always more or less the case of the people of God. This is a prophecy of what should be, and agrees with the prediction of our Lord, Matthew 24:11 and which regards not only the times immediately following, in which it had a remarkable fulfilment, for false teachers now began to arise, and appeared in great numbers in the age succeeding the apostles, but to all periods of time from hence, to the second coming of Christ; and these were to spring from, and be among such that bore the Christian name, and so regards not Mahometans and Deists; and it is to be observed, that the phrase is varied in this clause, and these are called not "prophets" but "teachers": because as prophecy was more peculiar to the former dispensation, so is teaching to the present:
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies: errors in the fundamental doctrines of the Gospel; such as relate to a trinity of persons in the Godhead; and to the person of Christ, to his proper deity, distinct personality, eternal sonship, and real humanity; and to his office as Mediator, rejecting him as the true Messiah, and as the only Saviour of sinners; denying his sacrifice and satisfaction, and the imputation of his righteousness; and to the Holy Spirit, his deity, personality, and divine influences and operations: these are "damnable," or "destructive," or "heresies of destruction"; which lead to eternal destruction both those that introduce and propagate them, and those that embrace and profess them; for they remove, or attempt to remove, the foundation of eternal life and happiness: the manner in which these are usually introduced is "privily"; at unawares, secretly, under a disguise, and gradually, by little and little, and not at once, and openly; and which is the constant character and practice of such men, who lie in wait to deceive, creep into churches at unawares, and into houses privately; and insinuate their principles under specious pretences and appearances of truth, using the hidden things of dishonesty, walking in craftiness, handling the word of God deceitfully, and colouring things with false glosses and feigned words: and even denying the Lord that bought them; not the Lord Jesus Christ, but God the Father; for the word kuriov is not here used, which always is where Christ is spoken of as the Lord, but despothv; and which is expressive of the power which masters have over their servants {i}, and which God has over all mankind; and wherever this word is elsewhere used, it is spoken of God the Father, whenever applied to a divine person, as in Luke 2:29 and especially this appears to be the sense, from the parallel text in Jude 1:4 where the Lord God denied by those men is manifestly distinguished from our Lord Jesus Christ, and by whom these persons are said to be bought:
the meaning is not that they were redeemed by the blood of Christ, for Christ is not intended; and besides, whenever redemption by Christ is spoken of, the price is usually mentioned, or some circumstance or another which fully determines the sense; see Acts 20:28 whereas here is not the least hint of anything of this kind: add to this, that such who are redeemed by Christ are the elect of God only, the people of Christ, his sheep and friends, and church, and who are never left to deny him so as to perish eternally; for could such be lost, or deceive, or be deceived finally and totally by damnable heresies, and bring on themselves swift destruction, Christ's purchase would be in vain, and the ransom price be paid for nought; but the word "bought" regards temporal mercies and deliverance, which these men enjoyed, and is used as an aggravation of their sin in denying the Lord; both by words, delivering out such tenets as are derogatory to the glory of the divine perfections, and which deny one or other of them, and of his purposes, providence, promises, and truths; and by works, turning the doctrine of the grace of God into lasciviousness, being disobedient and reprobate to every good work; that they should act this part against the Lord who had made them, and upheld them in their beings and took care of them in his providence, and had followed them with goodness and mercy all the days of their lives; just as Moses aggravates the ingratitude of the Jews in Deuteronomy 32:6 from whence this phrase is borrowed, and to which it manifestly refers: "do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise! is not he thy Father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?" nor is this the only place the apostle refers to in this chapter, see 2 Peter 2:12 compared with Deuteronomy 32:5 and it is to be observed, that the persons he writes to were Jews, who were called the people the Lord had redeemed and purchased, Exodus 15:13 and so were the first false teachers that rose up among them; and therefore this phrase is very applicable to them:
When I read this I was rather surprised because the scripture that came to me was Jude..and it seems that Gill also considered it.
Aren't you glad we have those great men of faith to fall back on? God has had His remnant throughout history.
As I communicated to you elsewhere, I find Calvinist intepretation of this passage (and Gill is an able representative) to be possible yet not fully convincing to me as I read the context and examine despotais (pardon the lack of greek font) and agorazo.
Despotais is an unusual designation for Christ in the NT but for false teachers on a power trip who rebile angelic authorities a word emphasizing Christ's supreme / absolute power is fitting. (Neither the Father or the Son is a despot in the sense of evil use of authority).
Concerning the word redeem: Two NT terms that are translated redeem used:
agorazo = purchase something / someone [ex. a slave] in the market place
exagorazo = purchase something / someone in the market place and to remove them
Peter uses agorazo in the verse.
Assuming these are Jewish false teachers I still believe the Jesus and the cross are in view rather than YHWH (God the Father) and the Exodus. I am not saying Gill is all wet. I do see the passage differently. I surfaced this passage on the thread because I think precisely the dialogue we have had is constructive and because the original post omitted this challenging passage.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made
Comments?
1. But there were. As weak consciences are usually very grievously and dangerously shaken, when false teachers arise, who either corrupt or mutilate the doctrine of faith, it was necessary for the Apostle, while seeking to encourage the faithful to persevere, to remove out of the way an offense of this kind. He, moreover, comforted those to whom he was writing, and confirmed them by this argument, that God has always tried and proved his Church by such a temptation as this, in order that novelty might not disturb their hearts. "Not different," he says, "will be the condition of the Church under the gospel, from what it was formerly under the law; false prophets disturbed the ancient Church; the same thing must also be expected by us."
It was necessary expressly to shew this, because many imagined that the Church would enjoy tranquillity under the rein of Christ; for as the prophets had promised that at his coming there would be real peace, the highest degree of heavenly wisdom, and the full restoration of all things, they thought that the Church would be no more exposed to any contests. Let us then remember that the Spirit of God hath once for all declared, that the Church shall never be free from this intestine evil; and let this likeness be always borne in mind, that the trial of our faith is to be similar to that of the fathers, and for the same reason -- that in this way it may be made evident, whether we really love God, as we find it written in Deuteronomy 13:3.
But it is not necessary here to refer to every example of this kind; it is enough, in short, to know that, like the fathers, we must contend against false doctrines, that our faith ought by no means to be shaken on account of discords and sects, because the truth of God shall remain unshaken notwithstanding the violent agitations by which Satan strives often to upset all things. Observe also, that no one time in particular is mentioned by Peter, when he says there shall be false teachers, but that all ages are included; for he makes here a comparison between Christians and the ancient people
. We ought, then, to apply this truth to our own time, lest, when we see false teachers rising up to oppose the truth of God, this trial should break us down. But the Spirit reminds us, in order that we may take the more heed; and to the same purpose is the whole description which follows.
He does not, indeed, paint each sect in its own colors, but particularly refers to profane men who manifested contempt towards God. The ,advice, indeed, is general, that we ought to beware of false teachers; but, at the same time, he selected one kind of such from whom the greater danger arose. What is said here will hereafter become more evident from the words of Jude, who treats exactly of the same subject. Who privily shall bring in. By these words he points out the craftiness of Satan, and of all the ungodly who militate under his banner, that they would creep in by oblique turnings, as through burrows under ground. 1 The more watchful, then, ought the godly to be, so that they may escape their hidden frauds: for however they may insinuate themselves, they cannot circumvent those who are carefully vigilant.
He calls them opinions of perdition, or destructive opinions, that every one, solicitous for his salvation, might dread such opinions as the most noxious pests. As to the word opinions or heresies, it has not, without reason, been always deemed infamous and hateful by the children of God; for the bond of holy unity is the simple truth. As soon as we depart from that, nothing remains but dreadful discord. Even denying the Lord that bought them. Though Christ may be denied in various ways, yet Peter, as I think, refers here to what is expressed by Jude, that is, when the grace of God is turned into lasciviousness; for Christ redeemed us, that he might have a people separated from all the pollutions of the world, and devoted to holiness ,and innocency. They, then, who throw off the bridle, and give themselves up to all kinds of licentiousness, are not unjustly said to deny Christ by whom they have been redeemed.
Hence, that the doctrine of the gospel may remain whole and complete among us, let this be fixed in our minds, that we have been redeemed by Christ, that he may be the Lord of our life and of our death, and that our main object ought to be, to live to him and to die to him. He then says, that their swift destruction was at hand, lest others should be ensnared by them.
------------------------------------------------------------
After thought and reading the commentaries of great men of God I return to my original thought on this verse. The blood of Christ did indeed was and is sufficient payment for all the sins of all the men ever born. So we can say that they were "denying "the God that bought them ..just as every single unregenerate man denies the God that bought them...the cross is complete payment for all but only efficacious for those that come..... Yep, I new Calvinist though I might be disagree with a friend on this cause I think you are wrong Steve :>)))))
This is precisely my view. Whether we agree or not I commend you for your great posts.
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.
An effectual call is something more than the outward message of the Word of God to men. It is internal, and is the result of the enlightening and sanctifying influence of the Holy Spirit ( John 16:14; Act 26:18; John 6:44), effectually drawing men to Christ, and disposing and enabling them to receive the truth ( John 6:45; Act 16:14; Eph 1:17).
CHAPTER 1
Exhortation to teach true doctrine only—Christ came to save repentant sinners.
1 PAUL, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
drstevej: This is precisely my view.
=====
Per our email I ammend my statement: "it was sufficient and provided for all but effective / applied only to the elect."
=====
Thanks, RnMom.
This is indeed right. Think of God's forgiveness, based on the sacrifice of Jesus, as akin to a check for $1-mil. The check is good, but only of value if you SIGN YOUR NAME TO IT and take it to the bank and cash it.
In other words, the flip side of the "forgiveness" coin is REPENTANCE. You can't have one without the other.
The argument posed by the Calvinists is: "How can any (totaly depraved) man come to repentance unless he is elected for salvation and led there by God?"
Doctrinaire Calvinists wrongly assert that God himself, and only God, MAKES us repent (irresistable grace) and thus "saves" his arbitrarily (unconditionally) "elect." But scripture, experience and prayerful reflection say God studiously refrains from making our decisions for us. He CAN. But HE WON'T. He waits and yearns for us to turn to him as human beings, with whatever faint willpower we muster. Then he has the mercy to blow on our smoldering coals of faith with his Holy Spirit, and magnify our power to resist sin. Still, there is an onus on us to make an effort.
THAT is what we should focus on: resisting sin. Being fruitful in spiritual virtues, holy. That is what we are called to do. And that is the power He makes available to us through the indwelling of his Spirit, which comes through repentance (faith). Whether or not we can legalistically lay claim to some God-given election to make it through the Pearly Gates should not even be a consideration. Either we will or we won't. Either way, Praise God! God is just. Though he slay me, yet will I trust him.
These Calvinist threads continually try to lay a legalistic basis on which somebody can brainwash themselves into believing they fer-sure are a-goin' to heaven. (And others are just as automatically damned, it would seem.) But there is ample warning from Jesus and elsewhere that we need to be ever watchful and faithful, to "work out" our salvation. Not that good works will achieve it, but that we struggle to our last breath not to give in to sin and rebellion. Like plantings that wither in the hot sun, we are ever vulnerable to the Devil's wiles, the world's lures and the lies and lusts of our own hearts.
The Calvinists have the laudable intent of assuring people that God is faithful, powerful and true and WILL honor his word: once saved, always saved. But to establish this "perseverance of the saints," they resort to circular reasoning that says: "Oh well, if you backslide, it means you were never elected by God to be saved anyway." And in a sort of divine economy, lest any ounce of forgiveness be wasted, they rationalize that the atonement achieved through Jesus' death was limited to the lucky few God chose.
Their ounce of comfort thus comes with a ton of anguish. And it debases the overwhelming significance, power and reach of Christ's sacrificial death. Now, "whoseoever will" may come before God, because while we were yet sinners, He provided himself a sacrifice for our sins.
It seems to me that dwelling on "Is I Is, or Is I Ain't Saved" is ultimately a selfish and futile occupation. God will know who responds to Him and who does not, who is in the Book of Life and who is not. It's not for us to judge.
We need to be in a continual state of humble repentance, ever fine-tuning our spiritual eyes and ears for the Spirit's guiding and admonition, and cherishing the inner peace He provides to cope with life's inevitable woes. It is the manifestation of His spiritual gifts to us (peace, love, patience, wisdom, discernment, self-control) that are the subtle evidence (the "down payment") of our salvation.
If we love Him, trust Him and obey Him, then whatever our fate, we will sing praise. It is an ironic truth that those faithful who will be looked on most lovingly by God will be those least ambitious for a fine place in glory with Him. (Myself, I'm angling for the lowliest street-sweeper's job in the New Jerusalem.)
ME: Is the unregenerate person spiritually dead or not? Poetic words... but we're talking about a grave yard not an Emergency Room. Death to Life. New birth.
Are you trusting His righteousness produced in your life as the basis for entrance to heaven or His righteousness fully placed to your account to get you into heaven? Is salvation a reward or a gift? Does the Bible say we can know we have eternal life? Is eternal life eternal? Did He say on the cross "It is finished."? or did He say, "I've done my part you better do yours!"?
Tim.1
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
THE FIRST EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO TIMOTHY CHAPTER 1
Exhortation to teach true doctrine only—Christ came to save repentant sinners.
Florida was great, but especially neat was the fact that we were able to worship with sea_oats and her husband, and enjoy a nice lunch with them. Let's see, I have met the_doc and sea_oats face-to-face, we will have to see how many more FReepers we get to see in the flesh.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.