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To: editor-surveyor; Jean Chauvin;
The bible is the source for the interpretations above on foreknowledge, ordination, and rejection. These are the things I believe and on which I stand. I can do no other, for there is no other interpretation that takes as much scripture into account as these.

They are a better contruct than is the calvinist construct. God has given Chuck Smith a better understanding than he gave to John Calvin. He has also given him a more loving spirit.

76 posted on 04/18/2002 9:31:54 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins; editor-surveyor
"The bible is the source for the interpretations above on foreknowledge"

The problem with your interpretation, though, x, is that it messes up the logic of the verse and necessarily impunes the sovereignty of God.

Let me explain.

For argument sake, let's assume that you are correct regarding your interpretation of Romans 8:29.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If we assume your argument, this verse thus would be rendered:

'For whom he did foreknow would freely choose him...'

This would necessarily imply the converse.

'For whom he did not foreknow would freely choose him...'

Thus we have a whole group of people of which God did not 'foreknow' their decisions. Since he only predestined, called, justified and glorified those he did foreknow would choose them, he obviously did not predestine, call, justify, and glorify those who he did not foreknow who would choose him.

Thus we no longer have a sovereign God -logically!

Rather, if the verse is allowed to speak for itself we have no such problems.

'29 For whom he did foreknow...'

What does it mean to 'foreknow people'?

Well, if we allow scripture to interpret scripture we see that God stakes claim to those that are 'his'. These are identified as God 'knowing' them:

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And the converse also holds true:

'For those God did not foreknow (as his own), he did not predestinate...'

As we see, this fit's perfectly with scripture:

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A perfect fit, no hermeneutical gymnastics required. Just allow the text to say what it does and don't force your interpretation on to it!

So, then, just how does one come to 'be foreknown'?

Matthew 11
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

We will never know the Son or the Father unless God will's that we know him. Again, here we see the converse is also true:

No man knoweth the Son or the Father unless God wills such knowledge. Therefore, those who do not know the Son or the Father have not been determined to have such knowledge. See also 1 Cor 2:14.

You may not like it. Calvin didn't particularly care for it either, he just couldn't deny the truth of it as you do. But once you come to this understanding -what great comfort it is to know that you are his and that nothing can separate you from his love! (Romans 8:35-39). What great comfort it is to know that you, in your natural desire for Christ don't have to make the correct decision for the correct Jesus -because he insures that you will!

What is your only comfort in life and in death?

That you made the 'correct decision'?

or

That you are not your own,
But belong-
body and soul
in life and in death-
to your faithful savior Jesus Christ. That not a hair can fall from your head
without the will of your Father in Heaven:
in fact, all things must work together for your salvation?

Is this your only comfort? Because it is mine!

IHS,

Jean

85 posted on 04/18/2002 10:37:36 AM PDT by Jean Chauvin
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To: xzins; Jean Chauvin; RnMomof7
God has given Chuck Smith a better understanding than he gave to John Calvin.

When Chuck Smith writes something equivalent to The Institutes (which by the way is still considered one of the best works of literatiure in Western Civilization) maybe I'll listen to him.

89 posted on 04/18/2002 10:55:12 AM PDT by sola gracia
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