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To: berned
If you respond, Campion, I must ask you to do so without resorting to the personal insults which you specialize in.

In other words, it's okay for you to make patronizing, insulting comments about Catholics. That's how you express your "Christian love". However, when I truthfully observe that Catholics don't have a lock on ignorance of Scripture, that's a "personal insult" and I'm supposed to shut up.

If you can't take the heat ...

When in the 1st century did an army from the east of 200 million soldiers come to invade Israel? rev 9:16. There were not 200 million people in all the earth in John's day

The "army" in question is angelic, not human, unless you are seriously going to argue that humanoid locusts riding horses with lions' heads are going to invade Israel in the near future.

When in the 1st century did two witnesses for Jesus get murdered, their bodies lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 days, and then suddenly have life return to them and they stand on their feet again while "terror struck those who saw them"? (REV 11:8-11). WHen did that happen in the 1st century? When, at the VERY HOUR this was happening, did a great earthquake destroy a tenth of Jerusalem? (rev 11:13)

The "two witnesses" are an allegory for the law and the prophets, who witness against the apostate Judaism of AD 70. If you look at the plagues they invoke -- calling down fire from heaven, turning the water to blood, etc. -- they correspond directly to those invoked by Moses and Elijah.

why in REV 11:1 does God tell John to measure the Temple and count all the people praying in it, but NOT the courtyard out front? (Remember the 2nd Temple was destroyed 25 years before Revelation was written.)

No, I don't "remember" that, because I don't believe it.

Keep in mind, people "allegorized" the depictions of Israel in Revelation for 18 + centuries because they never expected God to bring His Chosen People back to their land which he promised them through Abraham "forever and ever".

See, you hypocritically claim that I specialize in "insults," and you cavalierly throw garbage like this around. Why don't you try giving your opponents the benefit of the doubt? Maybe their view of Revelation came about because they think it's faithful to the text?!?

Now, when the Temple is re-built, ALL the prophesies in Revelation will be ready to happen. Christians are happy about that becuase it means the Rapture is imminent.

This would be the Rapture that was predicted to happen in 1988 ... or the one that was supposed to happen in 1994 ... I understand the current prediction is that it will be 40 years from 1967. When nothing happens by 2007, call me back.

IN answer to your question about the seven heads... they were seven world kingdoms, in order, Assyrian, Egyptian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, (Before Christ) Roman, was the 6th, and the 7th will also be the Revived Roman One-World Empire (headed by the Anti-Christ) and Roman One-World Church (headed by the False Prophet).

Nothing in Revelation talks about a "Roman One-World Church". The word used to describe the whore "Mystery Babylon" is polis (city), not ekklesia (church). In fact, Rev. 11 directly explains what the "great city" was -- "that city allegorically called 'Sodom' and 'Egypt', where their Lord was crucified". That's not Rome.

And the verse specifies seven kings, not kingdoms. Why are you allegorizing this? I thought allegory was bad?

113 posted on 04/02/2002 10:43:28 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
You see campion, here is where I must leave you out because you do not debate honestly. I wrote:

When in the 1st century did two witnesses for Jesus get murdered, their bodies lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 days, and then suddenly have life return to them and they stand on their feet again while "terror struck those who saw them"? (REV 11:8-11). WHen did that happen in the 1st century? When, at the VERY HOUR this was happening, did a great earthquake destroy a tenth of Jerusalem? (rev 11:13)

You responded

The "two witnesses" are an allegory for the law and the prophets, who witness against the apostate Judaism of AD 70. If you look at the plagues they invoke -- calling down fire from heaven, turning the water to blood, etc. -- they correspond directly to those invoked by Moses and Elijah.

HUH???? This "allegory" is your own invention that does not address any of the text in Revelation that I quoted. You do not address the earthquake issue, because NO EARTHQUAKE EVER DESTROYED A TENTH OF JERUSALEM in the 1st century AD. (Or EVER, to my knowlege -- this is because it will happen in the future) The Bible says this earthquake happened AT THE EXACT HOUR that the two witnesses came back to life and "struck terror in those who saw them". You can't answer me so you just don't address the little inconvenience of the killer quake that hasn't yet happened.

Then you say you don't believe Revelation was written in 95 AD even though your own Roman Catholic Encyclopedia ADMITS IT WAS!!!!!!!!! But it's inconvenient for your belief-system so you disavow the reality of Revealtion's written date.

It's fascinating to me that Catholics want to "allegorize" away reams and reams of Bible scripture that refutes their made-up theology, but they demand world authority because of one comment Jesus made to Peter about "a rock". Oy. God bless ya and good luck campion.

115 posted on 04/02/2002 11:30:38 AM PST by berned
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