Posted on 03/29/2002 8:19:26 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
I don't remember that. Perhaps I was drunk.
I see.
The default setting is HELL.
Is Bill Gates involved?
THANKFULLY, God is Good all the time and all the time God is Good.
It's also a given that His ways are higher than our ways--by definition and otherwise.
I've long noted that sometimes it seems like He spends even His favorite people like water.
And what of Job's children sacrificed for an illustration?
On the other hand, the story of Job has been a life giving comfort and lesson to millions.
And what of physically or otherwise damaged children. Where was the God of Love at their gestation?
He was there in all His bottomless Love in every subatomic and even more thorough Caring, Knowing and Omnipotence. I have to believe from what I have known in my own life of God and what I have read in the lives of others--that nothing is wasted in His economy.
While this life from our perspective is often far from fair, I have found GOD EXCEEDINGLY FAIR.
I'm convinced that SOMEHOW, when all is said and done and accounts are settled, not a single bacterium on a single gnat's pooper sphincter will have ought to say against God.
God is the paragon of generosity and forgivness. God is the paragon of second and 100th chances. He is the paragon of Compassion and longsuffering Kindness.
Scholar Walter Martin used to teach that there were a rare few whom God seemed to predestine to Salvation, but none that He predestined to hell. Yet, it seems that God creates the wicked for His purposes. Nevertheless, I'm convinced, that had we God's perspective, we'd still say that He was exceedingly generous, forgiving and kind even to the wicked.
The fact remains that we have a huge and decisive amount of free-will. Not absolute free-will. The law of gravity has power and authority over all of us regardless of what we want. But we live far from absolute predestination as well.
Certainly we can choose whether we will follow God to the best of our ability or sink passively or otherwise into the muck of following the fallen angel of light bent on spiting God for kicking him out of heaven--by plaguing and destroying as many of God's favorite creatures as possible.
PERHAPS we ought to remember God's goal. I am convinced that we can't judge a thing wisely or logically unless we know:
1) WHAT IS THE GOAL concerned?
2) WHAT IS THE CRITERIA, STANDARD that signals when the goal has been reached?
3) WHAT IS THE CONTEXT?
God's stated goal is to raise up a large group of intelligent, spiritually sensitive and powerful children who have demonstrated tenacity in choosing to follow Him and live by a law and currency of sacrificial Love. . . . for the ultimate role of ruling and reigning through endless eternities with Jesus The Messiah. . . evidently across endless galaxies, dimensions etc.
Given that this is boot-camp/initial training and screening for that ultimate goal. . . . I can't think of a better way of doing it--can you?
Thanks for sharing.
Certainly your thoughts are so valuable they will be read 6,000 years from now, and discussed and passed from generation to generation.
And I thought the threat was Christians putting up the Ten Commandments in Town Halls and football coaches leading their teams in prayer. Some people have bigger plans. For us all.
That is my point also.
Inasmuch as we cannot begin to approach His level of wisdom it therefore follows that we can only search for God's Will for us within ourselves as opposed to implementing God's Will externally - upon others.
Look near before you look far.
I beleive we can acheive his wisdom with faith in him and a beleif of the truth through him ![imho] if we live the life he prepares for us to live and do his will it has a profound affect on others who would not or are hesitant to beleive
I suppose I'll forever be amazed over those who will in one breath proclaim the unfathomable aspect of Gods wisdom, and then in the next breath pretend to know how to apply God's Will on others.
FOR SURE! Well said. . . . though I would change "within ourselves" to "within our own individual relationship with God."
Just as morality has no grandchildren and too rarely any children . . . so each individual's relationship with God must be worked out one on one with Him. Of course, He writes the rules . . . being God and all.
Neo-Puritians (gnostics) who are invincibly resistant to argument. They display some or all of the following traits
No.
Neither am I going to attribute (shift responsibility for) my actions to God. God gave me the capacity to choose ungodly paths which, when taken, cannot be "blamed" on God simply because I choose poorly.
I SUPPORT your use of the word, "if".
(IF 2+2=10 then my payments to the IRS are adequate!...PARTY TIME!!!)
The people rejected the leadership of God's prophet and judge, Samuel, and when God reluctantly consented to their wish, he instructed Samuel to Òmake for them a kingÓ, like all other nations. The choice fell upon Saul, a Benjaminite renowned for his bravery and his great height. Benjamin was the weakest tribe and the remaining tribes would therefore have no cause to be jealous against Israel's first king.
A few decades before the establishment of the monarchy, a grotesque and genocidal civil war erupted among IsraelÕs twelve tribes. Known as the Benjaminite War (Judges 19-21), this civil war was triggered by a ghastly local incident - the gang rape of a women in SaulÕs hometown, Gibeah of Benjamin. The rape was the cause for a war of revenge in which the tribe of Benjamin is nearly eradicated.
The story ends with the following sentence, which concludes the Book of Judges: ÒIn those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did as he pleasedÓ (Judges 21:25). Next comes the Book of Samuel and the anointing of Saul as Israel's first king.
The text in the Book of Samuel is a literary piece of art that presents Saul as a tragic hero. When the Bible introduces us to Saul, he is a peasant boy unsuccessfully searching for his father's asses. He returns with a very different kind of find - he has been made king. He searched for asses and found a kingship. Samuel explains to Saul that God had destined him to become king of IsraelÕs tribal federation. Saul answers with words of humility: ÒAm I not from Benjamin, the smallest of the tribes of Israel ? And is my family not the least of all the families of Benjamin?Ó (1 Samuel 10:20-22).
After anointing Saul in private, Samuel calls the people together in Mizpah to confirm the selection. There Saul is publicly acclaimed king according to a procedure involving the drawing of lots. First, from all the tribes, Benjamin is chosen; then Saul's clan is chosen; and from the clan, Saul. The new king tries to escape his destiny but the crowd eventually finds him hiding amid the baggage.
Saul's first challenge as king comes when Nahash (ÔsnakeÕ) the Ammonite besieges the Israelite city of Jabesh Gilead. Everyone abandons hope. Saul, however, is seized by the spirit of God and mobilizes a people's army from all the tribes.Following the victory, at a national convocation at Gilgal led by Samuel, SaulÕs kingship is reaffirmed by acclamation. There, Samuel warns the people to acknowledge the limits of human kingship and remain subordinate to the will of God.SamuelÕs speech marks the beginning of Saul's downfall.
Continued Philistine pressure provides Saul with a new test as military commander. The Philistines invade with Ò3,000 chariots, 6,000 horseman and troops as numerous as the sands of the seashoreÓ. The men of Israel are afraid and most defect rather than fight. At this time of great danger, king Saul and the Prophet Samuel are engaged in bitter conflict, and Saul is informed that he has fallen out of God's favor.
The war continues until Jonathan, SaulÕs son, raided the Philistine camp in Michmash, north east of Jerusalem. Jonathan and his armour-bearer passed during the night in a canyon between two high rocks, Bozez and Seneh, then clambered up the cliff and overpowered the garrison. Thereupon, Saul attacked with his force and beat the enemy. ÒSo the Lord saved Israel that dayÓ (1 Samuel 14).
The same biblical tactics were used again after 3,000 years during the British conquest of the Holy Land from the Turks in 1917. When a British commander was ordered to take a village called Michmash, the name rang a bell. He searched his Bible with the light of a candle until he found the story for which he was looking. The officer sent patrols to find the pass and then sent a company through it under the cover of darkness. The turks were quickly overpowered.
But back to the Bible.
Jonathan, not Saul, is the hero of the day. It seems Saul's own son is superseding him. Saul inflates the matter into a major conflict. His inner despair is so great that he tries to kill his son. Saul gets one final chance when Samuel charges him in the name of God to put Israel's most detested enemy, the Amalekites, under the ban, that is to destroy them. ÒKill alike men and women, infants and sucklings, oxen and sheep, camels and assesÓ (1 Samuel 15:3).
Saul destroys Amalek, but in contradiction of the divine ban, he spares their king, Agag. When confronted by Samuel, he has no explanation for sparing Agag. This is the last straw for God and Samuel. Saul is rejected as king because he has rejected the LordÕs command. Saul begs Samuel for forgiveness but the prophet replies: ÒThe Lord has this day torn the kingship over Israel away from you and has given it to another who is worthierÓ (15:28). Samuel is sent to Bethlehem to anoint David, a young shepard, as the next king. SaulÕs downfall continues against the backdrop of David's rise to power.
David comes to the nation's attention in the next round of war with the Philistines. As Israel trembles by the sight of the giant Goliath, David's courage saves the day. After the victory, the women of Israel come out to meet Saul:ÓSaul has slain his thousands; David, his tens of thousandsÓ (18:7).
David is brought to Saul's court - to play the lyre and sooth the troubled king. Saul becomes dependent on David - the very man who he will soon understand to be his rival for the throne. Saul is in a double bind. He is dependent on his rival; God's trap is complete. Saul's inner conflict is heightened almost beyond endurance. A paranoid Saul regards him with envy and conflict becomes inevitable. Saul reaches several times for his spear, but never succeeds in pinning David to the wall.
SaulÕs desperation becomes clear after the priests of the city of Nob innocently give succor to David. In retaliation, Saul orders the entire city to be exterminated. In killing everyone in Nob, including YahwehÕs priests, Saul also takes his revenge against God.
SaulÕs fits of jealous rage forced David to flee to the Judean wilderness, where Saul continued to hunt him. In the following spring the Philistines launched a major attack to the north. ÒWhen Saul saw the mighty Philistine force, his Heart trembled with fearÓ. Unable to obtain counsel from the Lord, the terrified king seeks guidance from the banned necromancer, the woman in En-Dor. Samuel, who has now died is conjured up. The prophetÕs response is clear and harsh:Ó...the Lord has turned away from you and has became your adversary. Tomorrow your sons and you will be with me; and the Lord will also deliver the Israelite forces into the hands of the PhilistinesÓ (1 Samuel 28:19). The following day the Israelites were defeated. SaulÕs three sons were killed and he himself fell upon his sword. The Philistines hung Saul's body and the bodies of his sons on the walls of Beth Shean.
As Saul falls, David rises. SaulÕs defeat by the Philistines occurred one day before David's victory over the Amalekites in a war that took place on Israel's southern border (2 Samuel 1). Saul is the great tragic figure of the Bible.
His travails represent not the tragedy of a man but that of a people who deny God in their demand for an earthly monarch.
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