[madison10]

Brock, Parker, and Crossan are all semi-Pelagians or worse. Brock comes from the Campbellite tradition (which denies original sin altogether); Parker comes from the Wesleyan-Arminian tradition (which claims that the depravity inherent in original sin is neutralized by universal prevenient grace); and Crossan comes from the Romanist position which assumes that, whatever original sin is, it is easily washed away by holy water.

So, my friend, are you saying that someone from the Wesleyan-Armenian tradition is NOT a Christian? and where did you get that quote "neutralized by universal prevenient grace?" Inquiring minds need to know.

[Ward Smythe]

So, my friend, are you saying that someone from the Wesleyan-Armenian tradition is NOT a Christian? and where did you get that quote "neutralized by universal prevenient grace?"

The Reformed tradition has a strong tendency to misinterpret God's grace. Wesleyan-Armenians do not believe that sin is "neutralized." We believe, in contrast to the Reformed/Calvinists, that God's grace is available to everyone, not just the "elect." There is a huge difference between that and saying that sin is "neutralized by universal prevenient grace."

[xzins]

depravity inherent in original sin is neutralized by universal prevenient grace

Hardly. WesArmism teaches that "Jesus is the light who lightens EVERYONE who comes into the world." It teaches that the Lord himself brings the individual to a point where they can make a real, valid choice between real, valid alternatives. This "prevenient grace" doesn't CHANGE THE DEPRAVITY in any way. It is simply a mericiful intervention by a merciful God.

It makes MORE sense to say that Calvinism "neutralizes total depravity." In c'vism God "forces the individual" OUTSIDE of their depravity FOR GOOD. That's neutralizing TD.