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To: VadeRetro
I've mopped up the floor with you on two threads with your intentionally fraudulent data filtration.

No. Homo erectus is not homo sapiens. The last fossils known of it are much further than Neanderthal from man. In fact, Neanderthal is said to have descended from erectus. Note that all three have different species names, that Neanderthal which descended from erectus could not mate with homo sapeins and has been proven three times, by different scienitsts, from different specimens to not have been a progenitor of man.

So that everyone can see that your statements are untrue, here is proof against your totally out of thin air nonsense about homo erectus (which you have already seen):

Don't let him baffle you with BS. Between H. erectus and modern H. sapiens is a species known as archaic Homo sapiens. Here's a timeline:


[the above was posted by Vade in a thread where he "mopped up the floor" with me. Below my refutation]

That's a really nice graph Vade, but a graph is evidence of nothing except that someone took the time to draw it. However, even that graph proves you to be absolutely wrong. Note that all the known and classified species have a name. Note that there is a big question mark after H. Heidelbergensis some 400,000 years ago. Also note that there is no such thing as an "archaic" anything, that is just a placemarker for something that is unknown. All specimens are named, there are no specimens there, it is just another evolutionary supposition because to evolutionists there must always be an answer other than God.

The only known species of hominids before homo sapiens are homo erectus and Neanderthal. Let's start with homo erectus:

Homo erectus lived from approximately 2 million to around 400,000 years ago.
From:  Homo Erectus

By 1.8 million years ago, one of the early transitional human populations evolved into a new, fully human species in Africa. Most paleoanthropologists refer to them as Homo erectus . However, some researchers now split them into two species--Homo ergaster and Homo erectus. The ergaster fossils were earlier, dating 1.8-1.5 million years ago, and have been found only in East Africa. The erectus discoveries mostly date 1.2-0.4 million years ago and have been found widespread in Africa, Asia, and Europe.
From:  Homo Erectus
Note, the above quote is from exactly the same site from which you got your graph!

The first species to migrate from Africa during the Pleistocene glacial period was Homo erectus. This species was widely disbursed in the time frame of 1.8 - 1 million years ago. They inhabited the regions of southeastern and eastern Asia until approximately 300 000 years ago. Europe, India, China and Indonesia have all yielded evidence of Homo erectus. (Wicander and Monroe 1993 )

Characteristics of Homo erectus are a brain capacity of 800 - 1300 cc, a large face and thick skull, brow ridges and a forehead that recedes. "Tukana Boy" was an African discovery, which shows that Homo erectus had a similar body size to humans. The period that this boy lived in was 1.6 million years ago. (Wicander and Monroe 1993)

Being able to construct tools, such as handaxes, was within the capacity of Homo erectus. Homo erectus, according to some studies, made use of fire and occupied caves. (Wicander and Monroe 1993)
From:From:  Homo Erectus

Even for you the above should be enough to show that homo erectus was not around when homo sapiens first arose.

On to Neanderthal. This is the closest hominid to homo sapiens. In fact, homo sapiens and Neanderthals were alive at the same time. They seem to have dissapeared at about 30,000 years ago while homo sapiens arose from 100,000 to 50,000 years ago.

Scientists have analysed the DNA of a third Neanderthal in an attempt to shed light on the genetic history of early humans.

The results suggest that, like modern humans, Neanderthals expanded from a relatively small number of individuals.

And there is no evidence to indicate that Neanderthals interbred with modern humans, something that has always been a bone of contention among experts.
From:  DNA Clues to Neanderthals

Neanderthal DNA is distinct from modern humans,” Goodwin says, “and there are no examples of humans having Neanderthal-type DNA.
From:  A Breed Apart

1,660 posted on 03/24/2002 9:41:47 AM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
Again, you selectively edit so much. Your reply repeats your threadbare deception that there is a gap between the disappearance of Homo erectus about 400,000 years ago and the appearance of modern Homo sapiens about 120,000 years ago.

I told you what the question marks mean on the figure. They refer to the "intergrading" of specimens between H. erectus and that species you can't see, archaic Homo sapiens. Some people, apparently Junior is one, prefer to start Homo sapiens 400,000 years ago and call the later emergence Homo sapiens sapiens. All of which was in the stuff you ignored when you just went back to one of the old threads and pulled out your own arguments.

Archaic Homo Sapiens, with the figure you posted and the framing narrative.

There are specimens all over the period where you allege a gap. I'm not going to fill up yet another thread with skulls.

Archaic Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals.

Archaic Homo Sapiens Culture.

The surviving physical evidence, from skulls such as these, suggests that the transition from Homo erectus to Homo sapiens, the earliest forms of our own species, occurred approximately 300,000 to 400,000 years ago.
From Here.

An overall hominid species timeline I posted to you before. No question marks on this one (but the intergrading is still there). This one uses the H. sapiens sapiens terminology. It's from here. Can you find for me the gap you're alleging in hominid ancestry?

Dishonest of you to pretend you can't see or understand or remember any of this. Your real hope by being born new on every thread is just to troll for idiots.

1,697 posted on 03/24/2002 11:39:09 AM PST by VadeRetro
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