Human reason, yes. Infinitely limited human reason, yes.
I have seen you make this point several times owk, and I have to offer another perspective. I notice you treat death and suffering in this life as always evil. Why is that? When I spank a small child for mis-behaving am I defying reason by causing the child's suffering, or am I trying to teach the child so that he will live a better, happier more ordered adult life than the one to which a pampered, spoiled brat has to look forward?
Now, I understand that from human reasoning, death is the final solution. It is the end and that is why our pagan society considers anything technology does to increase the human life span to be above all things heralded. Which is 180 degrees from Paul's statement, "for us to die is gain."
But let me offer an analogy to explain the Christian perspective. I admit all analogies fall short, but this might, at least, cause you to attack the issue from a different direction.
I compare this life to the afterlife as I would compare my public school years to adulthood. Now, if I think that after I graduate from High School, I cease to exist, I would want to stay in school as long as possible. I would not care about my grades and would party all the time. Being held back a few years would be a good thing. I would consider it very cruel for parents to make their kids study instead of party. If someone was grounded, I would consider it a tremendous cruelty. After all, if life ends the day you graduate, what logical reason would there be for going to class, doing homework, learning a work ethic or any of the other things we, of course, know that kids are being taught (by loving parents, at least) before they're 18. From the perspective of the kid that believes life ends at graduation, that is a bad event to be avoided. You would even consider it cruel to remove a kid early to home school him or send him to private school. But then, your reasoning is highly limited at that age. You are not allowed, and for good reason, to make these decisions for yourself…
I could go on and on, and there are plenty of holes in this analogy. But maybe it will allow you to consider the possibility that your human reasoning, as superior as it is to many people (and, quite frankly, I think it is), is still flawed.
Being the smartest sheep in the herd still makes you a total nincompoop compared to the shepherd. Sometimes the smartest sheep are the ones who learn to follow the "good shepherd" because they understand that, as good as their reasoning capacity may be, it still leaves them sorely ill equipped for the journey they are on, whether they chose to go on the journey or not. I'm smart enough to know that I don't understand all the nooks and crannies of the valley of the shadow of death through which we now journey - but he does.
OWK, with all due respect, where we are headed, your and my "reasoning ability," on it's own, is just enough to get us in a world of hurt. There may just be some things we really don't know - that without His help, will only get us in deeper. I'm glad your still on this thread, BTW…
We are not talking about a spanking my friend. We are talking about death. Death at the hands of a vengeful God. The end of earthly existence.
And what many fail to consider, is that we are expected to believe by the expositors of the faith, that we must make a choice IN THIS LIFE, as to whether or not we will recognize and follow God's heavenly invitation.
And so when God chooses to kill in "righteous anger" those who have yet to make such a choice, he removes from them, the opprotunity to later hear and decide. He condemns innocent men women and children to hell, in a fit of murderous rage. Or at least that's what the Bible says.
And so we see a paradox. We are expected on the one hand to beleive that God is the epitome of love, morality, and righteousness... and on the other hand, we are expected to believe that he judges nations, and exacts vengence indiscriminmately against those who happen to be unlucky enough to be in the way.
Both cannot be true.