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To: ArGee
There is no way to give them freedom and then guarantee anything.

Well, we don't give children freedom because they don't truly understand the nature of the world and its dangers. Merely telling them fairy tales is not enough to make them really understand the evil that strangers can do, or the many things that can hurt them. The Bible refers to us all as children of God, and a mere book with a few references to hell can hardly be enough to make people capable of understanding the nature of what might await them. Even adults in our world have more than one safety net and the welfare of our loved ones is usually not limited by our deliberate restraint in honor of their "freedom" but by our lack of capability to intervene on their behalf. However, you and I obviously see things very differently, so we might as well give it up. We aren't going to come to an agreement, that's obvious.

1,220 posted on 01/10/2002 6:03:04 AM PST by Anamensis
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To: Anamensis
However, you and I obviously see things very differently, so we might as well give it up.

Agreement? No. Understanding? Maybe.

My son turns 18 today. We set up an UGMA account for his college savings when he was young. As of now he doesn't plan to go to college. By law, he has access to all that money. There is nothing we can do about it. He can use the money to offset college tuition, or he can go buy a car. In my eyes he is still a child, and of course he is still my son. But the law says it's up to him.

We've done everything we can to make sure he knows how to choose well. Now the choice is before him. He is free to choose. I will tell him as often as I can that he should choose well, and he can always ask my advice. But the choice is his.

In the same way G-d has done quite a bit to let you know that He loves you and that the best choice you can make is to enter into a relationship with Him. You can deride the effort by calling them "fairy tails about hell" if you want, but I know better. He has even died to get your attention.

Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
He calls heaven and earth as witnesses. If you like, when you face him, you can appeal to those witnesses and claim that He didn't give you enough reason to choose correctly. G-d's own law has stated:

15 One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Therefore, I'm sure if heaven and earth come on your side, G-d will follow His own law.

Now you understand me. I believe G-d has given you every chance. I also believe you are an adult, although a child in the eyes of G-d. I believe the choice is fully yours and you will bear the responsibility for the consequences.

I think I understand you. You don't believe that G-d should give you the opportunity to make a bad decision. You believe that He should treat you like you don't have the mental capacity to make such an important choice. I suppose I could pray that He will grab you by the neck and force you - kicking and screaming if need be - into Heaven. Would you like me to pray that way for you? (I know you don't believe in prayer, but you know I do.)

Shalom.

1,221 posted on 01/10/2002 6:43:35 AM PST by ArGee
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