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To: Quix
That statement is utter nonsense to me. You couldn't live or function well at all without faith.

So now you say only the dead have no faith, interesting...

You have faith the sun will come up tomorrow.

No I don't. I KNOW the sun never comes up. I have independently verifiable evidence to demonstrate that the effect you are describing is due to the fact that the earth spins on it's axis and that the only way the effect you describe won't happen the following day would be due to a cataclysmic disaster. I accept that risk.

You have faith you'll still be breathing 10 minutes from now or 5 miles further down the road.

Wrong again, I understand the risks of life, the chance that accidents etc. happen, and accept those risks.

You have faith the big Mack truck will stop at the red light.

Wrong again, I understand the risks of life, the chance that accidents etc. happen, and accept those risks.

You have faith you'll PROBABLY be able to get your money at the bank when you need it.

Another fallacy. I understand economic situations, that money is a concept and not real objects, and that banks and the economy can fail. I accept those risks.

You have faith the food you eat is reasonably safe.

Wrong again. I understand the risks of food born illness, take reasonable measures to lessen those risks as much as possible, and accept the risk that my food will be tainted.

You have faith people who seem to like you today are likely to continue liking you tomorrow.

Nope, I understand the fallibility of human nature and accept the risk that people who demonstrate an appeal to being around me today will in all liklihood, continue that behaviour tomorrow.

You have faith that the skills that serve you so well today will likely serve you well next week.

Definitely wrong. I know and understand that my current skillset can be 100% invalidated due to technological advances next week. I take measures to continually educate myself in my field to minimize that risk as much as possible.

You may even have faith [probably rather shaken after Billdo and Shrillery] that at least some government people would like to see the nation continue.

No such thing at all. I place no faith whatsoever in any politician. I observe behaviour and vote for those who in my judgement, will cause the least amount of damage to this country, then continue to observe. Again, this goes to the observable nature of human character flaws. Politicians have too much power to trust them, let alone put any faith in one.

You have faith that your computer will function the next time you boot it.

Dead wrong. I am an IT professional. Experience has taught me you can never count on a machine functioning upon a reboot.

You may have faith that you'll get some thrill the next time you have sexual relations.

Wrong again, experience teaches that in all liklihood, even bad sex is still pretty good.

You have faith that when you go to brush your teeth, your neural pathways will function right and you won't poke your eye out.

Absolutely false. I understand that most accidents occur in the household of the victim statistically, and I accept the risks.

You have a kind of faith that the government will take too much of your income in taxes.

Come off it! That is 100% what observation bringing about reproducable and falsifiable results leading to valid conclusions is all about!

You have a kind of faith that people like Billdo and Shrillery will go on being destructive.

Wrong again. Observation, taking the reproducable and falsifiable results, and drawing conclusions. No faith needed at all.

You probably have a faith that you won't find any philosophical/religious cause for a valid cosmology including a created origin for man and the universe as we know it.

Wrong again. I look at the evidence, consider the current theoretical work, and accept the most plausible as just that under current evidence, all the while ready to shift to a more plausible explanation as soon as we have new or different evidence, or falsify the original evidence.

However, all of the above are probabilities.

You're getting closer.

We think we know enough to predict the sun's survival well beyond our lifetimes.

While understanding all the while that our evidence is likely incomplete and the sun could explode at any moment.

But that is faith in our own brilliance about an object that could well have a few secrets left undiscovered by our distant eyes.

As I just stated. This is what the scientific method is all about. Plausible theories and conclusions can only be formulated with currently available independently verifiable evidence. Once new evidence is uncovered, the paradigm shifts.

In a world made-up primarily of uncertainties--probabilities at best--FAITH is an absolute necessity to avoid despairing or at least dysfunctional synaptic catatonic immobility.

I have just demonstrated your entire premise as false. I get along fine with no faith at all.

You have evidently chosen to invest your faith in a construction on reality that you probably believe affords you more options, more choice.

How do you reconstruct this hypothesis of yours to fit the new evidence I have presented? I have no faith and have demonstrated how I have no faith.

I happen to believe that the targets of your faith investments even now and certainly ultimately will devastatingly restrict your choices to fewer and fewer options.

Wrong again. #1, I have no faith. #2, my acceptance of plausible explanations and the risks associated with living can be altered with the simple addition of new data. Blind faith such as that required for religion seemingly will reject new data that contradicts that faith, something I am totally unwilling to accept.

1,002 posted on 01/06/2002 7:13:46 AM PST by LuvItOrLeaveIt
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To: LuvItOrLeaveIt
1) I'm skeptical we have enough of a common language or common definitions to have much of a dialogue.

2) OR, PERHAPS you have one of the strangest brains and mental habits this psychologist has ever connected with [no real evidence of that].

3) I don't consider my faith remotely blind. It is based on considerable evidence and tested a number of different ways over more than 35-40 years or so.

4) I suspect an MRI or PET or even some simple electrodes attached to various neural pathways would reveal that you indeed have some ASSUMPTIONS to varying degrees in various contingencies--ASSUMPTIONS which I would equate with my notions of faith/trust. I strongly suspect such electrodes, MRI; PET scans would indicate varying degrees of faith/trust depending on the scenarios presented to you. If you are indeed human instead of a robot, I can't imagine that you are remotely as detachedly serene, intellectual, cerebral as you hold yourself out to be.

1,075 posted on 01/07/2002 5:18:41 AM PST by Quix
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