Posted on 12/15/2024 3:46:16 PM PST by ebb tide
Read the Introduction
Read chapter 1: Equally Valid and Holy
Read chapter 2: the New Mass
Read chapter 3: Latin
Read chapter 4: Practice & Belief
Every Sunday at Mass, we recite in the Nicene Creed, “Credo … unam, sanctam, cathólicam et apostólicam Ecclésiam” (I believe in one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church). We call these the Four Marks of the Church, that is, given and known signs by which the Church can be distinguished from all other religions or denominations.[1] Each mark is like a trademark “that is used to distinguish the article bearing it,” in this case the Church, “from all imitations of the same article,” [2] such as other religions or denominations. In considering the topic of tradition, a short examination of these four marks is valuable.
“The Church is One because all its members agree in one faith, are all in one communion, and are all under one head.”[3] Is this true today? Not everyone agrees on even the most basic tenets of the faith, for example, the Real Presence.[4]
Perhaps everyone is in one communion, but it seems to be a fractured communion. For example, part of the communion, the Society of Saint Pius X, is kept by the Vatican in a state of “juridical irregularity” because the Society refuses to accept certain innovations of the Second Vatican Council – innovations, which, because the Council was not dogmatic, no one else is required to accept. That is to say, no one is required to believe anything taught by the Council that was not already taught by the Church previously.[5] Yet, the Society, which is part of the communion of the Church, is being ostracized because it takes issue with some of the teachings of Vatican II.
Another part of the Church’s communion is being oppressed because of its affinity to the TLM. Even though the Church has had many rites as part of its communion for centuries, Pope Francis has decided that those who desire to attend the TLM must not be permitted to do so. (For some reason, he does not seem to mind attendance at other rites of the Church, just the TLM.)
The Church is under one head, Pope Francis. However, his pontificate has been so rife with corruption and heretical statements, that some are even wondering out loud if he has not abdicated his position as pope and the Church is without a head, although there is no consensus on this subject.[6]
“The Church is Holy because its founder, Jesus Christ, is holy; because it teaches a holy doctrine; invites all to a holy life; and because of the eminent holiness of so many thousands of its children.”[7] Here we can agree on the holiness of Christ and on the eminent holiness of many Catholics.
It is also true that the Church teaches a holy doctrine. However, there have been recent attempts to change the doctrinal teaching of the Church, for example, teaching regarding the indissolubility of marriage,[8] the permissibility of the death penalty,[9] or the intrinsically evil nature of homosexual relations,[10] to mention but a few doctrinal items. Can the Church teach one holy doctrine for centuries and then somehow decide that another opposing doctrine is now holy? This would seem to violate the fundamental principle of non-contradiction. Two opposing doctrines cannot be true. If the Church has always taught a holy doctrine, and she now changes parts of that doctrine, the changes cannot be holy, too.
While there may also be general agreement on the fact that the Church invites everyone to a holy life, there are some who do not agree on what that means. Changes in Church practice,[11] changes in teaching mentioned above, and the influence of modernism in the Church[12] have resulted in significant variations among Catholics regarding what it means to live a holy life.
“The Church is Catholic or universal because it subsists in all ages, teaches all nations, and maintains all truth.”[13] We can agree on this, too, even if there are questions about the truth that the Church is teaching today, as mentioned above.
“The Church is Apostolic because it was founded by Christ on His Apostles, and is governed by their lawful successors, and because it has never ceased, and never will cease, to teach their doctrine.”[14] Again, there are parts of this mark about which there is complete agreement: the founding of the Church by Christ with His Apostles, the governance of the Church by the lawful successors of the Apostles, and the continuing nature of the Church until the end of time.
There are, however, aspects of this mark about which some do not agree. The variance from Apostolic doctrine has already been mentioned above. Here, it should be mentioned that Apostolic doctrine is reinforced, inculcated by practices that have been handed down from the Apostles, nurtured and protected over time, and preserved for future generations, precisely to maintain the Apostolic nature of the Church. The radical changes in practice, discussed in chapter four,[15] are at least a threat to Apostolic doctrine, if, indeed, they are not the very thing that has changed Apostolic doctrine in recent years.
The four marks of the Church, that she is “one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic,” are supposed to distinguish the Church from all other religions or denominations. However, in 1965, “Archbishop Annibale Bugnini, main author of the New Mass, is quoted in L’Osservatore Romano as saying: ‘We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants.’”[16] Changes in the liturgy, Catholic practice, and Catholic teaching since Vatican Council II seem to be at odds with maintaining the distinguished or unique nature of the Church. Bugnini’s statement would seem to imply that the Church should now be on a mission not to distinguish herself from other religions.
The aspects of the marks of the Church discussed above that do not seem to apply today are ample evidence of this.
The Nicene Creed that we recite every Sunday at Mass is a concise compendium of essential beliefs of the faith. Its articles are doctrines that we must believe if we are to call ourselves Catholics. However, what are we to do if the Church herself no longer seems to embrace at least parts of these doctrines, such as certain aspects of the distinguishing marks of the Church?
St. Paul, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, cautions, “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”[17] This is what I choose to do. I will hold the traditions which I have learned from the Apostles and from the Church that continues to embrace those traditions and lovingly hand them down from generation to generation.
Continued next week.
The Nicene Creed that we recite every Sunday at Mass is a concise compendium of essential beliefs of the faith. Its articles are doctrines that we must believe if we are to call ourselves Catholics. However, what are we to do if the Church herself no longer seems to embrace at least parts of these doctrines, such as certain aspects of the distinguishing marks of the Church?
St. Paul, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, cautions, “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”[17] This is what I choose to do. I will hold the traditions which I have learned from the Apostles and from the Church that continues to embrace those traditions and lovingly hand them down from generation to generation.
Ping
One? Hardly. There’s 22 rites and the Roman rite and EO have been at significant odds for over a thousand years.
Holy??? With the condition of the clergy, rife with homosexuality and the guy you over as pope? Not even close.
Catholic? Hardly. *Accepting* people only if they agree with you is not very catholic in the general sense of the word.
Apostolic? Doesn’t look a thing like the NT church as witnessed in the book of acts.
*****
The problem for the romans is they cannot point to what those so called traditions are that were consistently taught by the Apostles.
The Immaculate Conception? Nope.
The Assumption of Mary? Nope.
The need to wear a man-made piece of cloth to avoid the hell-fire? Nope.
The roman pontiff? Nope.
The mass in Latin? Nope.
The proposed fifth Marian dogma? Nope.
That's just for starters.
Interesting... posted allowing apologetics.
**The four marks of the Church, that she is “one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic,”**
The church is Jesus Christ’s. He is the one that baptizes souls with the Holy Ghost. It is his name that the apostles used when baptizing converts in water. As the Israelites were all baptized under the cloud and in the sea, and were all baptized unto Moses there; so is the convert baptized (immersed) in water in the name of one person: Jesus.
Jesus Christ is the head of the church. The apostles said that several times in the epistles. The apostles’ doctrine is what Jesus instructed them in.
Did you even read the full article?
(For some reason, he does not seem to mind attendance at other rites of the Church, just the TLM.)
Just another knee-jerk reaction from an ex-Catholic. Not atypical.
The very fact that the fifth Marian doctrine - Mary, co-redemptrix - is being given any consideration is proof enough of the unfaithful nature of Roman doctrine thinking. It is simply raw paganism.
Nothing new here. Some items for you:
1) Martin Luther is not our pope. His own personal devotion is just that, personal.
2) In regard to the perpetual virginity of Mary and immaculate conception of Mary in Anne’s womb, it is clear that, theologically speaking, Luther assigned both of them to the realm of adiaphora. That is to say, the Scriptures do not speak clearly in regard to her perpetual virginity and do not say anything about her conception, except by application from Romans, that “there is none righteous, no not one.”
3) The fifth Marian doctrine, that is, that she is to be seen as co-redemptrix, is pure blasphemy and paganism. To which I add: Soli Deo Gloria.
So, your article demonstrates nothing, either that I did not already know or that disproves my point.
Try harder.
Luther lives rent free in your head.
To a degree the romans have already done this as they refer to her in this manner in CCC 969. They just don't have the enough support to do this....yet.
"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.
There is also OMCET....a relatively new deviation of Roman Catholicism (?)....or whatever the sect believes.
Someone needs to learn the difference between a rite and a denomination.
Protestants also need to know why the church is holy. And it doesn’t have to do if a small percentage (yes look at the numbers, not the hoopla) of priests who break their vows. Even Jesus had a Judas and that was one out of 12.
Catholic means universal. Look up what universal means. It sure isn’t Protestantism.
The ignorance of Catholicism is stunning.
Nope....Rome claims unity and right here on this board we see that just isn't the case.
Protestants also need to know why the church is holy.
Based on the numerous daily articles posted on this forum Roman Catholicism is not holy.
Catholic means universal. Look up what universal means. It sure isn’t Protestantism.
The church of Jesus Christ is universal for those who have faith in Him, and Him alone, for their salvation. That is what would make them holy.....not being a member of a denomination. And that's not Roman Catholicism.
The ignorance of Catholicism is stunning.
Especially when it comes to Biblical understanding.
Indeed, and this is in direct contravention of 1 Timothy 2:5:
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” ... which does not seem to phase the Roman theologians at all.
It amazes me that in the book Rome claims to have compiled for everyone they never included all of the Marian dogmas, Mary as Mediatrix, etc.
It's not so much as ignorance as it is hatred. Hatred so intense that they resort to lying.
They won't be able to claim "invincible ignorance" when their time comes.
Oh, really?
Then why do rely on only him to assign what is and is not in the Bible?
Luther assigned both of them to the realm of adiaphora. That is to say, the Scriptures do not speak clearly in regard to her perpetual virginity and do not say anything about her conception, except by application from Romans, that “there is none righteous, no not one.”
What happened to "sola scriptura"?
catholic, small “c” meaning universal. Not the Church of Rome.
You mean as evidenced by your daily posts against your duly and legally elected pope??
Hatred so intense that they resort to lying.
And as before, you cannot point to a lie.
Now ebb....that means you're constantly breaking the Commandment against bearing false witness. Per Roman Catholicism, though not the NT, you have committed a mortal sin. You are now without benefit of Heaven.
And that man-made idol around your neck won't help you one bit.
Tonight would be a good time to toss that idol away and profess faith in Christ, and Christ alone, for your salvation.
Will you publicly commit to this?
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