Posted on 12/01/2024 5:07:31 PM PST by ebb tide
Since his formation as a Jesuit in Chile in 1963, Father Jorge Mario Bergoglio "has always been associated with his erratic, contradictory and even discombobulated behaviour", writes Vatican journalist Luis Badilla in a commentary.
In this context, a phrase about Francis' behaviour printed in numerous books is memorable: "Bergoglio puts the blinker to the left, but then turns right, or vice versa".
Badilla notes, however, that a driver who sends ambiguous and incoherent messages to other road users causes "great disorientation".
He mentions Francis' recent "surprise" when he stopped at the luxurious apartment of the unrepentant Italian back-street abortionist Emma Bonino.
For Badilla, it is still not clear what Francis meant by turning a simple private pastoral gesture "into a studied little set-up for the cameras".
Francis, "who says he is as 'naive' as he is 'cunning', has chosen the ambiguous path of saying but not saying, almost as if he wanted to provoke uproar and turmoil".
He does this by using his usual formula, now applied in dozens and dozens of circumstances: "I say it, but I don't say it", "I say it because I was told it", "I say it because a wise man told me so, a student told me so, an old woman told me so, a nun told me so...".
But today, for "many Catholics", it is necessary and urgent to confess their disorientation and confusion publicly, "as an unquestionable right", Badilla insists.
It is allowed to say "I do not share many of Francis' personal opinions, some of which are damaging to the image of the Church and to the Petrine ministry", without being insulted as "indietrist", "traditionalist" or even "pre-conciliar".
Ping
The Church needs Vigano as Pope to replace Francis. Hopefully
Vat II can be reversed and 2000 years of Tradition will replace it, if not, its over.
Here's an example:
According to an oral tradition, which I cannot confirm with written sources, a great French theologian told his students that the study of history protects us from “ecclesiologically homosexuality”, that is, from a too angelic conception of the Church, of a Church that is not real because it does not have its spots and its wrinkles.
Letter of the Holy Father on the Renewal of the Study of Church History, 21.11.2024
Well I have no clue what that is suppose to mean, if Pope Francis did in fact say that. But as I have said, he is not the most erudite theologian and is prone to put his foot in his mouth. He really needs a trusted aide to be at his side and constantly remind him to stop and be silent and think before you say anything. Just my view.
I have been in some posts with the Dispensationalist-Pre Mill Rapture adherents in the thread about the late Hal Lindsey the author of the Late great planet earth to see if they are reassessing his work and that entire theological system.
Is that stated in that Letter from Pope Francis?
Yes. Click on the clink in my post.
What do you think Pope Francis meant by “ecclesiologically homosexuality”?
Do you not think it’s odd for a Catholic pope to be so focused on “homosexuality” in such a manner?
ebb tide:
I went to the document and all I found was the term “Monophysite” and not the word homosexuality”
So if translation I have using Monophysite based on the link you provided (and I read it in English and not Italian) then it seems to me that ecclesiologically Monophysite could mean only seeing the Church having One Nature, the Divine perfect mark because Christ is fully present in the Church but the human element, the Church Militant to use Traditional terms is still here on on the journey of faith.
Thus the Church is both the spotless (Holy) because Christ is fully present in His Bride but it also has those on earth (Church Militant) still dealing with the temptations and sin of the world.
So my view of what I wrote is based on thinking Pope Francis does know what the Monophysite heresy is (Condemned by Pope Leo the Great’s Tome at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD) and he is using Monophysite that the Church can’t see itself as having just One Nature so to speak [which is what the Monophysites argued). So Christ has both a Divine and human nature, the Church.
So the Catholic Church on earth with respect to Ecclesiology as the Body of Christ has both a Divine Element [Holy] and a human element that while having us sinners in it, that does not detract from the Church being Holy because the fullness of Grace is there.
That is what I think is meant “if” what was actually said is ecclesial monophysitism. I have read several translations from various sites and don’t find ecclesial homosexuality, which if that is the accurate term used, then I have no clue.
Do you not think it’s odd for a Catholic pope to be so focused on “homosexuality” in such a manner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For a real Pope it would be, but you’re talking here about Satan’s Pope. When she says jump, he says how high!
almost as if he wanted to provoke uproar and turmoil”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>....
Satan’s Pope is following her orders to finish the destruction of the RCC that she initiated at the Satan Council (VC-II, 1962-1965).
He seem to be split between the woke world and Church traditional teachings.
There is no consistency in his statements, sometimes he sounds quite conservative (those statements do not make it to FR), sometimes pretty heretical (often listed in FR).
I see they have already done the scrubbing of "homosexuality" to replace it with "monophysitism". I'm sorry I didn't take a screenshot earlier.
But I encourage you to read this article:
A History Without Apologetics? A Commentary on the Pope’s Letter
According to an oral tradition whose written source I cannot confirm, a great French theologian...
Francis is quoting a source he cannot confirm about some "great French theologian" who remains unnamed.
Do you not see the ambiguity is his letter?
As the original article states:
He does this by using his usual formula, now applied in dozens and dozens of circumstances: "I say it, but I don't say it", "I say it because I was told it", "I say it because a wise man told me so, a student told me so, an old woman told me so, a nun told me so...".
Maybe the reason is that the former are few and far between, and the latter are numerous and weekly.
Pope Francis has inspired many theologians in the Catholic Church to continue more confidently in their scientific study of homosexuality and the morality of same-sex relationships.
Alain Thomasset is a 64-year-old Jesuit priest who is president of ATEM, an international and ecumenical association of French-speaking moral theologians founded in 1969 in Paris.
He told La Croix’s Arnaud Bevilacqua that a profound reflection is needed on the way doctrine deals with the question of homosexuality.
ebb tide:
The article you linked the commentary also says Monophysite [Gaetano Masciullo 24 November 2024 and the Papal Letter was issued on 21 November 2024].
In fact if he did use that term it could have been seen by the Vatican as bring negative press in Europe among the secularist and taken as a slur or hate speech nonsense. But I can’t really comment on that based on what I have read.
The article by Masciullo is good, it points out the good aspects of the Letter but offers constructive points on where the Letter falls short which I agree with.
In fact, my favorite series on Church history is the multi volume work done by Prof. Warren Carroll who was at Christendom College and back in the 1990’s when the internet first appeared and the first online Catholic sites appeared, he was the Church history moderator at EWTN and would answer pretty much any question someone had.
He was clear in his work that he is writing a History through both Christological lens and the History of the Catholic Church.
https://www.christendom.edu/about/warren-h-carroll/
I have J. Pelikan’s history but his starts 100AD but is also good. Carroll’s sort of goes through the OT, talks about the foundation of Rome and Greece, etc and weaves a narrative that way.
Well that guy reminds me of Hans Kung, dresses in a suit, does not where his Priestly Roman collar and black paints and suit or cassock, so another priest in his mid 60’s who is stuck in the 1970’s.
He is 64 and thank God he has not been appointed a Bishop anywhere. Lets pray it stays that way.
I would disagree with you on this.
Most of his preaching is conventional.
And, he is still strongly pro-life!
But, he is often confused.
Too often, for an old priest in his position!
I think, he really desires the world to applaud him.
I call him Woke Pope.
You really think so?
Pope Francis: Church too focused on gays and abortion
Pope Francis Visits Italian ‘Abortion Icon’
According to LifeSite journalist Michael Haynes, Bonino is credited for being “at least partially responsible for over 6 million abortions,” including 10,141 illegal ones, a fact that she has boasted about in the past.
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