Like the Eveready Bunny, the heretics just keep going, and going...
Posted on 10/26/2024 10:19:02 AM PDT by ebb tide
Cardinal Victor Fernández, the prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, announced that the female diaconate will be the subject of a more in-depth study under the impetus of the proposals sent to the commission assigned to this task. He also stated that this question, although Pope Francis considers it not “mature,” is not a “closed issue.”
To delve deeper into the differences between holy orders and authority in order to be able to entrust laywomen with leadership functions in the Church is, according to Fernández, the objective of the work of the group he leads at the Synod on Synodality to reflect on the role of women in the Church at the request of the Holy Father.
Cardinal Fernández made the statement during a meeting on Thursday afternoon with about 100 members, guests, and experts participating in the synod to hear their questions and proposals regarding the work of group 5.
(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...
Like the Eveready Bunny, the heretics just keep going, and going...
Ping
Leadership in the Church is a function of Orders which our Lord restricted to men. Men and women are different and have different roles. This is by God’s design. Live with it.
We need an additional synod. A Synod on the Synod on Synodality. Then we can journey with those who reject Christ’s teaching, as they journey their journeys.
We haven't heard the last of Bergoglio's evil sinnods. From the article:
The cardinal was also asked about the possibility of this matter being the main theme of the next synod. “I don’t know what the procedures are for proposing the next themes, it’s not my job, but perhaps it will be one of the themes proposed” at the end of this synod, he replied.
And don't let anybody tell you that these synods are not a "democracy" where the majority rules:
In this regard, the DDF prefect said it is possible to “have a significant consensus” regarding the leadership roles of women in the Church while noting that “very concrete steps will be taken in this regard.”
Rom 16:1 "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church at Cenchrea." In the Greek transliteration:
synistēmi de hymeis hēmeis adelphē Phoibē ho eimi diakonos ho ekklēsia ho en Kenchreai
Paul's use of the masculine ending form (e.g., 'diakonous') at six verses elsewhere in the Bible are all translated 'deacon(s)'.Yet at Rom. 16:1's, the use of 'diakonon' is usually translated 'servant.'
Notable exceptions that do use 'deaconess' in Rom. 16:1: Amplified Bible, God's Word Translation, International Standard Version, J.B. Phillips New Testament, Names of God Bible, New Catholic Bible, New International Reader's Version, New International Version, New Living Translation, New Testament for Everyone, (New) Revised Standard Version (including Catholic Editions).
Elsewhere, 'leader' (Contemporary English Version) or 'minister' Darby Translation), "in the ministry" (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition), or "special servant" (Easy-to-Read Version) are used.
N.B. Multiple biblical commentaries note that Phoebe may have been the messenger for Paul to carry his Roman letter to those of the church at Rome.
How many times does the Bible need to say something before some of the billions of followers of Christ (over the last two millennia) cease trying to explain away the plain text of an apostles' writing?
I thought it was an article of faith in the Catholic church that only men could be ordained.
Anything goes in FrankenChurch: the blessing of sodomite couples, Holy Communion to pro-aborts, non-Catholics, and those in a state of mortal sin, pagan worship, mandatory clot-shots.
Anything goes, except for the Mass of Ages.
Yes, the word “deaconess” was used by Paul, as it was in the early church. But this should not be confused with those ordained into the ministry. Many studies have shown that the deaconesses in the early church were not ordained nor considered the same as the ordained deacons. They were women that had particular functions in regard to other women. Their role was limited and not a participation in sacramental Orders. Remember, Paul also said that women should remain silent in church.
The Bible is not a legal document and it would be a mistake to take its words as having legalistic precision, as if a word used one place always has the same meaning when used elsewhere. Language does not work that way.
Tradition, however, tells us a bit about who and what "deaconesses" were in the ancient church. Turns out they were not ordained and were not interchangeable with male deacons who were. Their most significant function involved assisting female catechumens during baptism.
I have no reason to confuse the possibility of a woman being a deacon(-ess) and still being held to silence in the church, such that it’s a necessary problem or that a deaconess can’t therefore exist in any way comparable to a deacon. Why do you? Do all the Catholic churches where you attend forbid women to speak, by the way?
Where would you direct me to learn of your “[m]any studies” regarding the limitation(s) of deaconesses versus their male counterparts?
When Paul mentions Phoebe, noted differences or limitations on deaconesses are entirely missing from his use of the term, or in reference to Phoebe. He apparently considered her worthy of the trust to deliver Paul’s epistle to the Romans. (Imagine if she hadn’t been worthy of such a highly-honored trust!)
If anyone in the Bible were learned and experienced in legalistic, godly precision, Paul would be it. Paul rightly drew Timothy’s attention (2 Tim 2:15) to the importance of accurately handling the word of truth. That doesn’t sound at all reminiscent to me of your comment that “the bible is not a legal document.”
Neither does your admonition, “as if a word used in one place always has the same meaning when used elsewhere” harken to any reality of language working in such a way that a word used in one place must therefore likely have a different meaning when used elsewhere. We’re aren’t talking about a nuanced interpretation of a verb whose meaning might change when steeped in nearby context. If a man’s name had appeared in Rom 16:1, it’s a rare personn who would have thought the context of that verse would apply uniquely or necessarily to a man, or that it couldn’t apply to a woman, or that the meaning would be dramatically altered if it did refer to a woman.
Strict Lutherans (disregarding ELCA and ALC for the moment), who understand the religious world very similarly to Catholics, set aside an order of deaconess who are devoted do their ministerial service. Yet, they don’t include those in sacramental Orders, either. What you are so quick to point out (silence in the church, sacramental Orders) do not logically preclude the existence of deaconesses, let alone their doing special work for and within the church.
The term “helper” occurs but 7 times in the NT while servant occurs scores of times. In the NT, “helper,” almost all (5) the references are to the Holy Spirit. (Once is a reference to the Apostle John.) Yet, Phoebe sits in a very unique class as Paul calls her a “helper of many, and of myself as well.”
Nowhere in those scores of mentions of a NT “servant” is there a NT translation of a female “servant” (that is underlying not diakon-) rendered as “deaconess.” So, it seems as if your tautology has gone for naught.
Nonetheless, I’m not one to pretend a deaconess, as a valuable servant of the church, should in any way be doing the same work as male deacons.
There have been at least three studies on the issue by the Vatican and they have all come to the same conclusion: women in the early church who were identified as deacons were not ordained and were not the equivalent of male ordained deacons. Their main task was to catechize women and assist in their baptism, where there was a question of modesty. They did not have a liturgical function nor did they oversee the temporalities of the church. The history, despite what feminists would want, is clear on this point.
As for the conflict between women deacons and remaining silent in church, important roles for deacons is to proclaim the Gospel and to preach, roles which they could not do if they were to remain silent.
I assume from your response that you are not Catholic. Catholics do not hold to “the Bible alone.” Church Tradition is also a source of the faith, and that Tradition has always held that women cannot be ordained. Additionally, Pope John Paul II definitely declared that woman cannot be ordained. Yes, he did state this in regard to the priesthood, but there is only one sacrament, established by Christ, which includes the order of deacon. And, of course, there is the example of our Lord himself. This, too, is binding on Christians.
At the base of all of this is the modern notion that dismisses the distinctions between men and women. These distinctions come from the hand of God; they are neither accidents of nature nor the injustice of man. As created by God, women are ordered to the bearing and raising of children. In the normal course this would entail multiple children in order. This is a full time vocation. Dismissing this is an attack against women and their feminine nature, not an act of liberation.
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