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How Pope Francis opened the Vatican to transgender sex workers
The Washington Post ^ | May 5, 2024 | Anthony Faiola and Stefano Pitrelli

Posted on 05/05/2024 1:52:05 PM PDT by ebb tide

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To: PTBAA
"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18)."

I found that part. But Jesus is The Rock not Peter. The gates of hell prevailed against Peter three times while he denied knowing his Lord. So, His Church is not built on the shifting sand of mankind. NO! It is built on the Cornerstone (Who is Jesus). And no mention of successorship, written or implied.

"Now it would be rather silly for someone to think that God meant for his church to be founded only to die with Peter."

Now why would a sane person ever think that?? Only a Catholic would pose that hypothetical. Peter had no supremacy over the others and that is obvious in various texts. In fact he was called out over his hiding his eating habits with Gentiles and even Paul said he was no less an apostle than Peter. There goes your Petrine Supremacy theory out the window.

41 posted on 05/06/2024 7:00:06 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Dementia ain't just a river in Egypt. )
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To: Montana_Sam

see post #41.


42 posted on 05/06/2024 7:01:27 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Dementia ain't just a river in Egypt. )
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To: Montana_Sam
Jesus appointed Peter as the first head of the visible Church

Jesus is the head of the visible church. He is the “Rock” of our salvation, and the one upon whom the Church is built. Peter, like all of us, is a living stone (Petros) built on Jesus (Petra)
43 posted on 05/06/2024 7:36:00 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: BipolarBob

Show me in the Bible the passage that records Jesus telling Martin Luther that he was authorized to start a new church in his name.


44 posted on 05/06/2024 8:39:54 AM PDT by PTBAA
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To: PTBAA
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

That is the commission of all of the saved. To witness to others. Martin Luther did so at great risk of injury to himself. He read the Bible. He followed what light was given unto him. The Catholic Church had become quite corrupt at that time and God decided it was time for a reformation (for those who hear and think). Thank God for Martin Luther.

45 posted on 05/06/2024 8:45:57 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Dementia ain't just a river in Egypt. )
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To: PTBAA

Luther lives rent free in the mind of the Roman Catholic.


46 posted on 05/06/2024 11:00:30 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: BipolarBob

Martin Luther couldn’t keep his promise of chastity and edited the Bible to suit his own weakness. Began the nonsense of easy salvation. Jesus said the gate to Heaven is “narrow” and warned few find it. Said not everyone who said to Him “Lord, Lord” would enter the Kingdom of Heaven, demolishing the idea of certain salvation by mouthed formula.

“If a godly person is barely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?” -1 Peter 4:18

Luther’s errors have resulted in all the nonsense we see today. Catholics and Christians almost universally using abortifacient contraceptives. Catholics and Christians having abortions and justifying it. Divorce, multiple marriages, fornication, lustful thoughts no big deal because one is “saved”, porn addiction, IVF, freezing eggs, etc. How many times do the Scriptures tell Christians not to deceive themselves with rationalizations of their sins?


47 posted on 05/06/2024 12:56:00 PM PDT by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: BipolarBob

I ask again, where is Martin Luther written in the Bible? I’d really like to look those verses over carefully. Thanks in advance.

Using your own logic, if he’s not mentioned in the Bible as God’s representative, he’s not a legitimate representative of God, and your faith is based on a lie.


48 posted on 05/06/2024 1:22:53 PM PDT by PTBAA
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To: ealgeone
Even if a priest is there to help them the Roman Catholic cannot be assured what they are hearing from their priest is actually the correct interpretation of the Word.

Tell us all about the "assurance" that you have that your minister is giving you the "correct interpretation of the Word".

How do you know it's correct? Because you agree with it? Hardly an objective test. Hardly a test that matters to anyone except you and God.

Rome has only dogmatically defined less than 40 verses of the Bible

Ex cathedra teachings do not, generally speaking, "dogmatically define" verses of the Bible. (What would that even mean? How would you "dogmatically" exhaust all possible meanings? Why would you even want to do that? "Hey Scripture scholars, your job on this verse is done; nothing more need be said." ... why?)

They do dogmatically define specific teachings concerning faith and morals. So that, for example, when Arius taught that God-the-Son incarnate in Jesus was a "lesser god" who was created by the Father at a point in time ("there was a time when He was not" was their slogan), the Nicene council authoritatively, dogmatically, said, "NO" ... God the Son and God the Father are homousios ("of one substance") and God the Son was eternally "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God".

And when Pelagius said that grace consisted of us being able to save ourselves by our own efforts and that the Cross was just Jesus giving us a good example, the Church authoritatively -- dogmatically -- stepped in, most notably at the II Council of Orange (a local council given dogmatic force by a later Papal decree) and said, "NO" ... apart from grace you are dead in your sins and can do nothing at all to gain God's favor.

I'm betting that you agree with both of those positions. Christians don't have to re-fight those fights because the Church, at a very early stage, ruled dogmatically on them. If my priest teaches contrary to those dogmatic positions, I know he's not teaching the faith.

49 posted on 05/06/2024 2:28:09 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: MDLION
Martin Luther couldn’t keep his promise of chastity

His vow was based on misinformation. The Church lied to him. Peter was married. There was no commandment to be celibate. There should be no coercion. For ML to continue his work as a priesthood that he felt called to, a man made requirement was burdened on him. Therefore the vow was nullified because it was based on lies.

50 posted on 05/06/2024 2:31:06 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Dementia ain't just a river in Egypt. )
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To: Jan_Sobieski
He must be right because of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility according to dogma prescribed in Pastor aeternus.

Would it be fair to say that you've not actually read Pastor Aeternus?

It never directly uses the term "Papal Infallibility". Here is the money quote (and also the only instance of the term "infallibility" in the document).

... we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, **1** in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, **2** in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he **3** defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals **4** to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

I helpfully noted the FOUR conditions required for a Papal **teaching** to be infallible: **1** **2** ... so on.

That infallibility belongs to the Pope only when he proclaims a doctrine meeting all four conditions; it doesn't somehow inhere in him personally on a continuous basis.

51 posted on 05/06/2024 2:34:47 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion
We’ve been told repeatedly we cannot read the Bible for ourselves. Only Rome can tell us what is or isn’t right. But without a clearly defined position on the texts each Roman Catholic is basically on their own….even the priests.

So how is that any different? How do you know your local Bible study leader, if the RC has one, is right in what they’re teaching?

52 posted on 05/06/2024 2:39:34 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: PTBAA

Show us the passages that clearly declare Mary as sinless, our best advocate, etc.


53 posted on 05/06/2024 2:43:07 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: PTBAA
My "logic" doesn't require a persons name but a reason for there to be an office of a superior being (Pope) in charge of Gods Church. The Holy Spirit is to guide Gods Church and not some mortal fallible man making pronouncements favorable to homosexuality or sexual immorality or a nations border security. He is well guarded but wants us surrounded by those who do not have our nations best interests at heart. This is NOT Gods work. Does he preach the gospel pointing ONLY to Jesus as our only way to salvation? No, he does not.

Martin Luther was way more the Christian than your Frankie the ex-bartender.

54 posted on 05/06/2024 2:43:53 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Dementia ain't just a river in Egypt. )
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To: Campion

Are you saying all the bulls and other writings from the pope aren’t valid or binding on the Roman Catholic?


55 posted on 05/06/2024 2:50:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
We’ve been told repeatedly we cannot read the Bible for ourselves.

Who's "we"? If you mean "Catholic laypeople," you're quite wrong. In fact, private Bible reading is an indulgenced act, and has been for a long time. The Church can't promote anything more highly than to attach an indulgence to it.

Only Rome can tell us what is or isn’t right.

Wrong. God didn't give you a conscience as a vestigial organ. It's your duty to form your conscience by studying correct teaching, among other things. Sitting around waiting for Rome to rule on every jot and tittle will keep you waiting for a very long time.

It's been 2000 years, eagleone. Most question have been posed before, most of the answers, with varying degrees of authority, are written down in books. Much of it is even on the Internet. If I had trouble understanding something or it seemed contradictory, it's not that hard for me to find a solid priest and ask him.

Your question is a little bit like asking how anyone do mathematics without the International Mathematics Union issuing an authoritative decree that every line of every solution to every problem is correct. If you're just trying to compute how much fertilizer you need for your lawn, you don't really need to go to the world's highest authority on math to figure it out.

How do you know your local Bible study leader, if the RC has one, is right in what they’re teaching?

I don't go to parish lay-led Bible studies, because they're usually really bad. (Not goring any individual ox here; I'm just speaking generally, in my experience ...) As I say, if I have a question, the answer is usually written down (I have a fairly big bookshelf) or on the Internet.

56 posted on 05/06/2024 2:51:26 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion

Do Roman Catholics not say we have to “cooperate” with God for our salvation? Sounds like they’re making the same error you note of Pelagius.


57 posted on 05/06/2024 2:55:28 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
I said nothing about anything being "valid" or "binding". Don't put words in my mouth.

Why do you immediately jump from "not infallible" to "not valid or binding"?

(And btw, something can be "valid" but "not binding" quite easily. Clement XIV's decree suppressing the Jesuits was absolutely valid. It is not binding on me in any way; this is not the 18th century, and I am not a Jesuit.)

58 posted on 05/06/2024 2:55:46 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: ealgeone

Active cooperation is necessarily enabled by actual grace. Look it up.


59 posted on 05/06/2024 2:56:54 PM PDT by Campion (Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - Little Flower)
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To: Campion
The folks who’ve been saying believers can’t read the Bible for ourselves are your fellow Roman Catholics on these forums.

Rome only began promoting individual Bible study in 1943 IIRC. I guess that could be a long time.

60 posted on 05/06/2024 2:59:42 PM PDT by ealgeone
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