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To: RoosterRedux

I do a couple of things when talking with Muslims.

I use Surah 10:93.94 to establish that Muhammad approved the Bible in its entirety, which means what the Bible talks about the Christ must also be approved of because Muhammad approved of it.

The second point I make is that Allah admits to being afraid of the King of Kings because the Kings of Kings is going to judge him. Allah admits to this, so Allah ultimately denies that he’s the Supreme Being, because one who will judge him is greater than he.

https://www.maxshimbaministries.org/2021/04/allah-is-afraid-of-jesus-king-of-kings.html

You are right that, when comparing scripture to scripture, they cannot be moved away from the Quran, because they don’t consider the Bible to be a true book.

However, earthly works is another thing. If I can bring down lightning from the sky, they are unduly affected by these kinds of works, moreso than Christians imo.


19 posted on 03/23/2024 5:19:51 AM PDT by Jonty30 (Do you know why I'm always right? It's because I know everything. )
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To: Jonty30
The problem I have had in discussing Jesus/Isa with Muslims who know the Quran is that the Isa of the Quran is not the Christ of the New Testament.

And, of course, Muslims believe that the Bible has been corrupted.

20 posted on 03/23/2024 5:23:56 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (A person who seeks the truth with a closed mind will never find it. He will only confirm his bias.)
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To: Jonty30

Or three days of darkness.


21 posted on 03/23/2024 5:28:08 AM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings )
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To: Jonty30; .45 Long Colt; Apple Pan Dowdy; BDParrish; Big Red Badger; BlueDragon; boatbums; ...
I do a couple of things when talking with Muslims. I use Surah 10:93.94 to establish that Muhammad approved the Bible in its entirety, which means what the Bible talks about the Christ must also be approved of because Muhammad approved of it. The second point I make is that Allah admits to being afraid of the King of Kings because the Kings of Kings is going to judge him. Allah admits to this, so Allah ultimately denies that he’s the Supreme Being, because one who will judge him is greater than he. https://www.maxshimbaministries.org/2021/04/allah-is-afraid-of-jesus-king-of-kings.html

Yes, te Quran claims to be “a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them, which means that the Quran must wholly conflate with, and not contradict the Bible, as is manifestly does:

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. [Muhammad does not say anything about them being corrupted] (Surat Al-Ma'idah 5:48: Sahih International)

[The Arabic meaning of the word "watch" (Muhaimin) can also be rendered "one who safeguards", "stands witness", "preserves" and "upholds". (See Abdullah Yusuf Ali's footnote) This clearly contradicts the view that the revelations given to the prophet of Islam allegedly abrogated the Bible! If this was the case there would be no need to confirm the Torah and the Gospel or even to watch over them in such a determined way.]

More, translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali:

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)

Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 47)

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: They change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them - barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): For God loveth those who are kind. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 13)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme Felicity. (Surah 10, Junus, verse 64)

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, 'That is from God,' but it is not from God: It is they who tell a lie against God and (well) they know it! (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 78) [meaning that some people - as Islam does -say some things are from the Book= Bible, but the Bible itself remains authoritative]

2. Muhammad could not read, and mostly likely received a perverse version of some of the Bible, which would explain why Muhammad inferred that the Christian Trinity consisted of God, Jesus and Mary ("O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’’ Sura 5:116-117)

Faced with the above affirmation of the Bible, Islam resorted to truncating the meaning of “The Book,” the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians to only that of the Torah and the gospels (Injeel), while also asserting that these were corrupted wherever the Quran contradicts them.

However, this is a manifestly untenable argument. for there is more ancient manuscript evidence for the Bible, beginning from before the 7th centiry Quran, than there is for any literature of like antiquity.

And while this wealth of manuscripts provides Islamic with charges of corruption, parroting atheists, yet not only are these are such things as spelling,sentence structure, etc.besides covenantal distinctions instead of actual doctrinal teaching. yet

none of these aspects provides a solution to the Islamic problem, as none of the manuscripts substantiate the Koranic deviations, nor does the small percentage (contrary to typical Islamic exaggeration) of actual variants among manuscripts support the manner of massive changes which the Islamic solution requires. Moreover, the Koran, for which there is no manuscript evidence for over 100 years after it was said to be given,[25]

Thus it is seen that the manner of corruption of biblical text which Islam charges is that of the Koran, not the Bible which authority it is much based upon, and Muhammad must be charged as being one who attempted to corrupt the Bible.\

Another recourse of Islam is to invoke the Gospel of Barnabas, yet which is manifest to be a fourteenth century attempt to read Islamic doctrine into the Bible, which clearly refutes it.[33][36][35][34]

In addition, in the New Testament the nature of the people of God is essentially that of a spiritual entity, into which "body" all believers are baptized upon believing, (1 Cor. 12:13) and are translated into the spiritual kingdom of Christ. As such, the means of warfare for the New Testament church was "not carnal", that is, by the sword of men, but spiritual: "By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left." (2 Cor 6:6-7)

In contrast, Islam works out of the model of a seventh century physical theocracy, which thus uses physical means of oppression toward those without as well as within, in order to defeat its enemies and enlarge its borders. Due to both the nature of the Koran, and Muhammad's example, and evidence from the Hadityh, many believe that "radical" Islam is more historically authentic and representative of the modern Islamic world than the "moderate" variety.[40]

Evidence supports the conclusion that considerably greater diversity existed among the earlier texts of the Koran than is reflected in the extant manuscripts studied thereafter. As is widely accepted, in the late 7th century, the Caliph Uthman, being disturbed by the diversity in the text of the Koran, organized a standardization of the Koranic manuscripts, destroying texts considered deviant, and thus cutting off access to possibly more original forms of the text of the Koran. Further steps were taken in successive centuries to fix the text and its recitation.[30] “

And, because of the emphasis on oral transmission and the vagaries of Arabic as it developed, the written text was constantly vocalized in new ways which did not preserve the original vocalization. The original vocalization must have been lost very early on if it did indeed exist. While bearing testimony to the careful preservation of one particular consonantal text, the history of the transmission of the text of the Koran is at least as much a testament to the destruction of Koran material as it is to its preservation. It is also testimony to the fact that there never was one original text of the Koran.[31][32]

[2]

Footnotes

[1]
Quran Confirms: Today's Bible Unchanged

45 posted on 03/23/2024 8:53:03 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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