Posted on 05/31/2023 8:53:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Rick Warren, the founder of Saddleback Church, said in part one of a video series posted online ahead of the Southern Baptist Convention that he has felt compelled to reject both the complementarian and egalitarian views of a woman’s role in the Church and in ministry after a three-year journey that led him to realize both beliefs “have unbiblical weaknesses.”
In the video released as part of his four-part series titled “SBC at the Crossroads,” Warren weighed in on complementarianism, the theological framework that says women have distinct roles in the family and church and are forbidden from holding certain offices in the church, and egalitarianism, which contends that Scripture does not warrant such restrictions.
“There are biblical alternatives to both complementarianism and egalitarianism,” he said. “And while both of those positions have strengths, they both, in my opinion, have unbiblical weaknesses, and they ignore important Bible verses. So actually, I'm neither. I'm neither one of them, I reject them both. Now, if you're honest, you'll have to admit that Paul often says things about women in Scripture that appeared to contradict each other. So tell me what you want to believe … and I'll show you the verses you have to ignore or rationalize away.”
The SBC holds to the belief that the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.
In February, the SBC Executive Committee ruled that Saddleback, which Warren founded in 1980 and has since become the largest Southern Baptist church, is no longer in “friendly cooperation” with the SBC due to “the church continuing to have a female teaching pastor functioning in the office of a pastor.”
In October 2022, Pastor Andy Wood, who succeeded retiring Warren at Saddleback, listed his wife, Stacie, as a "pastor" in his biography on the prominent California megachurch's website. And on May 7, Katie Edwards, one of the three women ordained at Saddleback in 2021, was announced as the Lake Forest campus pastor.
Warren and Saddleback Church plan to challenge expulsion from the denomination at the SBC's Annual Meeting next month in New Orleans.
In his video message, Warren said he was raised with “cultural views on women” but underwent a three-year process of biblical study and exegesis. He said this involved studying Greek words, understanding the background and context of Paul's writings and comparing passages where Paul seems to contradict himself.
“It was a difficult journey to have my biases and cultural traditions blown away by the Word of God. But when I was confronted with the truth, I had to humbly repent, no matter what my friends would think of me,” he said.
Warren said the turning point for him was Jesus' confrontation with the Pharisees, who were known for their strict adherence to traditions and rules.
“They loved making rules. They loved being legalistic. They loved protecting traditions, and they loved judging others, and they come to Jesus and they said, ‘Lord, why do you break the traditions of the elders?’ And Jesus asks them a question … ‘Why do you break the commands of God for the sake of your traditions?’ Well, that did it for me. That was the thing that pushed me over.”
Warren said he will further address the role of women in the Church in the third installment of his series, titled “New Testament Case for the Ministry of Women,” but admitted he “doesn’t expect to change many minds.”
“Honestly, it took me years of Bible study,” he said.
Warren and Saddleback Church also reportedly plan to release several videos making their case for inclusion in the SBC, according to Baptist News.
The pastor told the outlet that Saddleback is not challenging the Executive Committee’s ruling for the church’s benefit, but for five specific reasons he said “would benefit others we care about,” including a desire to “spark the thinking of messengers regarding the direction of the SBC.”
“We’re challenging the ruling on behalf of millions of SBC women whose God-given spiritual gifts and leadership skills are being wasted instead of empowered for the Great Commission,” he said. “We cannot finish the task Jesus gave us with 50% of the Church forced to sit on the bench. Great Commission Baptists believe Jesus authorized every woman to go, to make disciples, to baptize and to teach — just as he authorized every man.”
Loser!
Jesus himself was probably a Pharisee. He shared their faithfulness to the law, but condemned their hypocrisy in its enforcement and implementation.
All I will say is, why are Christians forever laboring to get as close to cultural conformity as possible? Coincidentally these updated views almost always please those in the world.
RE: Coincidentally these updated views almost always please those in the world.
The issue is — What REALLY the BIBLICAL view. THAT is what Christians today are struggling with.
RE: Loser!
So, what in your view is the winner?
So, when the Apostle Paul clearly lays out what is expected of men and women in the church, was that a tradition or a rule? /massive sarc
Personally, I’d rather have the approval of God than the approval of the world.
He didn’t study the Bible. He certainly didn’t study it for years; scripture is not unclear or voluminous on sex roles.
He mis-appropriated and mis-quoted the passage about what Jesus said.
He went woke.
RE: The God’s engrafted Word of God which is able to save souls. Not the opinions of men who do violence to the Word of God
Nobody ( least of all Rick Warren disagrees with that general statement ). What is the ROLE OF WOMEN in the church is the question.
Rick Warren serves someone other than Father God and his Son Yeshua the Messiah. I think that god lives in his wallet.
“The issue is — What REALLY the BIBLICAL view.”
Well, were there any female pastors in 100 AD when the apostles were still around?
No?
Then I think we already know what the Biblical view is.
Jesus came to pay for our sin, but just as importantly He came to start to show us How to convert from the Law to the Spirit of the Law. Just as He said if we looked at a woman with lust, we had already committed adultery. If you are proud that you haven't laid with a woman, we needed to know that is not the spirit of the Law He gave us. Jesus IS the Word and He is our Judge s to call Him a Pharisee is an insult.
As far as the question about women, in Genesis God explained that since Eve broke the Law, the man would rule over her. That includes church. I won't dwell on what Paul taught in the New Testament, but read 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Adam was not deceived and Eve was. For Adam to be a "type" of Christ, He showed that He would follow His bride into death to eat the forbidden fruit, but she wouldn't be allowed to rule over Him.
Women were given the burden of child bearing and submission to men for thousands of years before they thought they were equal to a man. I didn't set up the system,, but God did. I can't help if Rick Warren watches the View and follows their thinking. I've been watching The "Last Kingdom" for a few weeks now and it goes to prove that women, for thousands of years women have been beaten, raped, and generally badly treated until the 1960's. Men have been taught that they should treat women with respect as Jesus loves the church as His Bride. If you don't follow Jesus, your woman will show it.
> The issue is — What REALLY the BIBLICAL view. <
Yes, indeed. And for me the bottom line comes from the actual words of Christ in the Gospels, and not from inferences.
Jesus picked 12 men to be his disciples, and no women. What does that mean? It means that He picked 12 men, and no women. Nothing more. I will not make any inferences.
Now, Jesus gave us many words to live by. Sometimes He spoke directly. Sometimes it was in parables. But did He ever teach that women were not suited for the ministry? No, He did not.
As you noted SeekAndFind, this is something we Christians struggle with. We are all imperfect. Good people can have different viewpoints.
“Great Commission Baptists believe Jesus authorized every woman to go, to make disciples, to baptize and to teach — just as he authorized every man.”
Soon to come from Saddleback: “Great Commission Baptists believe Jesus authorized every everyone - regardless of gender or sexual orientation - to go, to make disciples, to baptize and to teach.”
Once you give The Middle Finger Salute to God’s Word, you cannot stop. Once you start pandering, you can never pander enough! Waiting for him to call for reparations - if he hasn’t already.
Seriously, when his famous book came out...I wondered what people saw in it. Or him.
and men used to be the breadwinner of the family and the leader......not true any longer....
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