Posted on 04/25/2023 6:47:33 PM PDT by marshmallow
Rome Newsroom, Apr 21, 2023 / 09:25 am The head of the Coptic Church is scheduled to offer the Orthodox Divine Liturgy in the Catholic Archbasilica of St. John Lateran in Rome on May 14.
According to Father Martin Browne, an official at the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity, this liturgy will take place in the context of an official visit of Coptic Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria to the Vatican and “has been arranged following appropriate consultation.”
In comments to the National Catholic Register on April 21, Browne drew a distinction between the Orthodox liturgy scheduled for May and the unapproved Anglican service that took place this week in the same basilica.
The Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox Church’s sacraments as valid, even if still in schism, while the Church does not recognize Anglican orders as valid, which means they cannot validly celebrate Mass.
“Pope Tawadros will celebrate at a specially constructed altar and not the main altar of the basilica,” Browne said, noting that the Anglican service also did not take place at the main altar.
“The liturgy will be for the Coptic faithful in Italy, which again gives it a different character to one involving solely pilgrim clergy,” he added.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...
Heck! Why don’t they just open up St. John Lateran to all non-Catholic religions; and hand over the key to the tabernacle to each one of them?
A step towards Hell.
The Coptic Orthodox have Apostolic origins and have valid Sacraments. The disputes over Pope Saint Leo the Great’s Tome, which was the dogmatic definition (the orthodox theology) that was codified at the Council of Chalcedon has been resolved. Thus, the Coptic Orthodox and the differences over language and terminology regarding settling the Monophysite crisis is no longer. In areas in the Middle East where Eastern Catholics in Communion with Rome and Oriental Orthodox, of which the Coptic Church is part of (there are 5 others) totaling some 60 million Oriental Orthodox not in communion with the EP of Constantinople (Eastern Orthodox), and members of one church do not have access to the Sacraments of their own Church, they can receive them in the other.
The Oriental Orthodox are not Protestants.
I never said, nor implied, they were. They're schismatics.
Unlike the Anglican service this service shares with the Latin Church the necessary core beliefs and apostolic succession for validity.
You did not, but using the Oriental Orthodox to then say might as well let all non-Catholic celebrate a Liturgy in Saint John Lateran suggest they are at least somewhat similar.
I don’t know what happened with the Anglicans who were there last week, that was a screw up by someone.
I suggested no such thing.
I never said they were. I said the Disputes over the Council of Chalcedon 451 AD were resolved.
I beg to differ. Your Heck! post suggest otherwise.
Are they Catholic or schismatics?
Yes or No.
They are Oriental Orthodox who are not in communion with Rome, so Schismatic.
But in terms of communion, they are in much closer Communion with Rome than Protestants, who are not close, only connected via Baptism, and now as close today as Assyrian/Ancient Church of the East, who also have Apostolic Succession and valid Sacraments but only hold to the first 2 councils (Nicea 325 AD and Constantinople 381). They did not like the term Theotokos wanted the term Christokos. So they rejected the Council of Ephesus, they were wrongly accused of Nestorianism since they do hold to the view that Christ is a unique Divine Person (so they accept orthodox Trinitarian Doctrine) and the Divine and human nature co-exist in the Divine Person of Christ.
The Chaldean Catholic Church was once part of the Assyrian Church of the East which came back into full communion with Rome during the time of the Council of Trent in 1552.
In 1994 a Common Christological Declaration between the Catholic Church signed by Pope John Paul II and the Assyrian Church of the East Patriarch Dinkha IV.
The Assyrians did not have a word to translate Theotokos so that is why they rejected it. Given the Assyrian Church accepts the same Christological Doctrine, that is Christ is a Divine Person with a Divine and Human nature without confusion, etc.
The Catholic Church accepts the Assyrian Church of the East profession of Christokos as valid expression of the same faith that Catholics express with Theotokos
So there are actually 3 Eastern Churches with Apostolic Succession and valid Sacraments, the Eastern Orthodox, the largest with the EP of Constantinopile (220-250 million or so), the Oriental Orthodox of which the Coptic Church is part of (about 60 million) and the Assyrian Church of the East, hard to get numbers, maybe 1 million or so left in the East but many have immigrated to Europe and USA so lots in the diaspora.
My "Heck!" post only mentioned "non-Catholic religions".
I'm tired of your accusations of me "suggesting" things I have never stated, nor implied.
So they're non-Catholic, right?
P.S. I never claimed they were Protestants, as you had implied in your first post.
Well yes and No. They are Catholic like the SSPX, from my perspective. They are Eastern Catholics who are in Schism.
The only difference between the Oriental Orthodox and say the Assyrian Church of the East and say the Maronite Catholic Church and the Chaldean Catholic Church is that the Maronites and Chaldeans are in full communion with Rome and the Oriental and Assyrian Church of the East are not.
I went back and read your post that said heck, why not all non Catholics be allowed to use Saint John Lateran.
My view is the Eastern Churches are much different than the Protestants and should not be lumped together with them in no circumstance.
So I agree 100% that you and I disagree on this.
Your perspective is dead wrong.
And the Anglican "mass" in St. John Lateran was not an unfortunate accident.
The Anglican Vicar David Burrows, rector of Saint Mary's and All Saints in Elland, England, wrote on Twitter.com (April 20), that
"I have said Mass publicly as a priest of the Church of England in Churches and at Altars under the direct control of the Bishop of Rome, both within the Vatican and in the City of Rome, each time, each time being given the Tabernacle key."
After careful consideration, Pope Leo XIII came to the conclusion that Anglican ordinations are "utterly null and void."
Frankly, I find your feeble defense of Catholic prelates pimping out Catholic churches to non-Catholics for non-Catholic services (whether they be protestant or orthodox) to be despicable.
The Anglican was wrong. Letting the Coptic Orthodox use it, and they are having a temporary Altar built does not bother me. As I said, in areas where Muslim terrorist have killed say an Eastern Catholic priest or Oriental Orthodox priest or Assyrian Church of the East priest, there is already members receiving the sacraments.
The Coptics are not Protestants. To view them that way is wrong.
I agree 100% the Anglican thing was wrong, but I am not talking about the Anglicans, I am talking about the Coptic Orthodox
The SSPX consecration of Bishops by Lefebvre was an illicit schismatic act. They though are not heretics like the Sedevacantist.
So as I have said, you equate the Oriental Orthodox with Protestants, I don’t.
the Coptic Patriarch is in Rome for like 5 or 6 days. Maybe this is part of a process to formally recognize communion which in practice in areas where Eastern Catholics, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of The East are being persecuted, is already taking place.
So as I have said, you equate the Oriental Orthodox with Protestants
I have never equated the Protestants with the Orthodox. You are not telling the truth by repeating that lie about me.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.