Posted on 02/18/2023 2:38:54 PM PST by ebb tide
New from RTV...
In this RTV Spotlight, Michael Matt discusses the accusation leveled against Traditional Catholics by everyone from Pope Francis to the FBI to the radically Leftist Southern Poverty Law Center, i.e., that we “reject Vatican II”. Well, is that true? If so, what does it mean? And if it’s not true, why are they all accusing us of it? What is it about Vatican II that makes it absolutely essential for all Catholics to “accept” under pain of being suspect of “domestic terrorism”?
Ping
Vatican II began the devolution into the communist papacy that exists today.
Vatican II has destroyed the Roman Catholic Church.
YES!
I went to a Catholic grade / high school when there was such a thing. It wasn’t a big school, only 63 in our graduation class. We learned to sing the Latin Mass, Latin High Mass and Latin Funeral Mass as well as regularly attending Latin masses on Sundays and First Fridays. I can recall all as being satisfying and enjoyable for the most part. As I now see, over nearly eight decades of my life, every time the Church makes “improvements” in the Mass, fewer people attend.
I went to a Catholic grade / high school when there was such a thing. It wasn’t a big school, only 63 in our graduation class. We learned to sing the Latin Mass, Latin High Mass and Latin Funeral Mass as well as regularly attending Latin masses on Sundays and First Fridays. I can recall all as being satisfying and enjoyable for the most part. As I now see, over nearly eight decades of my life, every time the Church makes “improvements” in the Mass, fewer people attend.
I went to a Catholic grade school in the late 70s and early 80s - and I only knew folk-masses, hippies with bongos and tambourines at mass, nuns in street clothes, and Jesus presented as an emotive, loving psychotherapist.
Of course, the school lasted about another 15 years, and then it closed. Which is sad, because it had been in existence for 120 years.
“Vatican II has destroyed the Roman Catholic Church.”
Yes, you are right.
Quite frankly, it was immediately destroyed, everything since has just been ongoing crumbling. I thought Benedict would change that, but he did not.
Imagine if we had had the pre-VCII church during the last several decades. A church that would have treated the “devout catholic” advocates of abortion as the apostates that they are. Etc. etc. etc. Of course, the molestation scandals have stripped them of pretty much the last shred of credibility, not sure how that fits in with VCII, I haven’t delved into things deeply enough to know the timeline. But there’s no arguing that VCII made ANYTHING better, at all, in any way.
The problem isn’t the Trads, quite to the contrary.
Full disclosure: no longer an RC, which was probably only possible because of VCII, but not entirely because of that, and not because of the sex scandals, and not because of the ludicrous Francis.
Acts 20:32
And now I commend you to God
and to the word of His grace,
which is able to build you up
and to give you the inheritance
among all those who are sanctified.
Don’t lose hope brother, I feel the same way but in my heart I believe the ship will right itself. I remember my Dad telling me that his cousin [who was the Pastor of our Church] visited him while he was in the Hospital for heart surgery and asked my Dad why he left the Church and my father told him “ I never left the Church the Church left me” I had to laugh because I felt the same way. By the way my Dad and him were both Seminarians at the same Seminary before WWII.
Thus, it is possible to defend the positions presented in Vatican II documentation, if you assume only Holy and Inspired implementation.
Vatican II compiles the results of multiple "working groups" on various subjects. So, it was the objective of the infiltrators to be the guy in the room with the pen in hand, documenting the results. Therein lay the opportunity to inject the ambiguous language, subject to later corrupt implementation.
“ Vatican II has destroyed the Roman Catholic Church.”
Not to quibble - but V II was convened by the pope of the RCC, attended by thousands of bishops and archbishops, its documents prepared by her leading theologians - if it “destroyed” the RCC, maybe it was destroyed BEFORE the first session ever happened.
Most of the real monsters of the sexual abuse crisis - the ones with hundreds of victims, the ones who profaned the Eucharist, who used the Sacraments to further their perversions, etc were formed in the pre-V II church. The scandal of “Franny” was widely known in the 1940s.
I am convicted that the Gates of Hell cannot prevail against Christ’s church - but the case that V II is cause and not effect is weak IMO.
I’m a TLM convert from Anglicanism and I absolutely reject the heresy of Vatican II just like Anglicanism. Truth doesn’t evolve to fix an inconvenience of morality.
“Therein lay the opportunity to inject the ambiguous language, subject to later corrupt implementation.”
I agree with that and whole comment was well-stated.
Won't happen. pope francis has declared a de facto schism from the real Catholic Church and will only diverge further until his and Satan's goals converge as one.
Not only are you correct but look who have become Saints....John,Paul, JP 1&2, soon Ben, all involved in VII
Vatican II welcomed Modernism into the Church. St. Pius X defined it in Dominici Pascendi Gregis as the “synthesis of all heresies.” He required all involved in the work of the Church, from Cardinals to school teachers, to take the Oath Against Modernism, which PaulVI conveniently rescinded, at the end of Vatican II. Then PaulVI disingenuously wondered how “the smoke of Satan entered the Church.” Well, surprise, surprise...
When there is no right or wrong and everything is up to one’s own beliefs, as Modernism proposes, one ends up traveling down the road to Apostosy, as evidenced by Bergolio.
PS. All true Catholics should be opposed to Vatican II, even if circumstances require that they attend the NO. Modernism should always be rejected.
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