Posted on 02/12/2023 5:25:15 AM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
In post 8, MHG says this: “The second coming He comes back to touch down at the Mount of Olives.” Big problem with that is that the Millenium happens AFTER the second coming and that includes the touchdown at the Mount of Olives, which is CLEARLY explained here:
http://www.biblelightinfo.com/millen.htm
You celebrate Valentine’s day?
In the video, biblical scholar, Ken Johnson, quotes Irenaeus as proof of a PTR. Tell me, Professor, why did he leave off the last sentence, that came directly after his quote? The answer is because he is a LIAR BY OMISSION and Ken knows full well that Irenaeus didn’t believe in a PTR. But admitting that doesn’t sell books and videos, or get him invited on Prophecy Watchers, does it?
In none of the early church fathers’ writings there is proof that they believed in a pre tribulation rapture, the opposite is true.
... And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
-Irenaeus: Against Heresies V 29:1
Since Irenaeus describes that the tribulation of Matthew 24:21 (the great tribulation) is the last contest of the righteous, it is clear that he believed in a post tribulation rapture. Some argue that because he writes “suddenly caught up” (and ignore the last sentence) it means he believed in a pre tribulation rapture, but they fail to realize that at the second coming the church will be suddenly caught up (in a post tribulation rapture view.)
Biblical scholar, Ken Johnson, PARTIALLY quotes Hippolytus from On Christ and Antichrist, 64, in saying:
“And Esaias speaks thus: Come, my people, enter into your chamber, (and) shut your door: hide yourself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation of the Lord be overpast. And Paul in like manner: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth of God in unrighteousness.”
Ken says that Hippolytus is saying this is a sign of the tribulation period, AND THAT THE RAPTURE HAPPENS BEFORE IT.
The entire quote from Hippolytus CLEARLY conveys that God will protect His people THROUGH the tribulation...(from that quote)
“Who shall bring the conflagration and just judgment upon all who have refused to believe in Him. For the Lord says, And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near. And there shall not a hair of your head perish. For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”
Ken Johnson is a LIAR BY OMISSION and he will certainly be judged by God because of it. Oops, my bad. He’s OSAS/OJAJ. Doesn’t matter what he does after Grace. Purposely misleading Christians? No problem for him or Ravi. All good.
Hey Professor, thanks for posting that video. I watched it some time ago when you posted it then, but I’m going through it again. So far, 2 huge LIES from biblical scholar Ken Johnson. More to come. Thanks again. Oh, have you found the internet cite for the latest DSS release? You said it was released, so where is it?
Anyone who claims that the God and Magog of the bible are happening today can't read or don't understand bible prophecy. For example in the time frame given by God and Magog in Ezekiel this is said about the land where Israel now is:
Eze 38:11 You will say, 'I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates'—
That's not Israel today. There are bars, gates and walls in Israel both figurative and literally.
This happens in the latter days:
Eze 38:16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes."
Now we might not think that the "latter days" means today. But the bible tells us when this event takes place...exactly when.
Rev 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
This take place after Christ, returns and AFTER a thousand years of peace in the millennium.
Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
This is a summary of the events in Ezekiel chapter 38.
Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
In short the Gog and Magog war does not happen for a thousand years after Christ returns. Christ hasn't returned and so whatever is happening today with Gog and Magog is immaterial to the events of the Gog Magog war in the bible.
Well, I have not seen any claims from anyone on this board about a "secret" Rapture.
Unexpected, yes. Secret, no.
So it's kinda hard to defend something when you have made no claim to it.
Uh oh, here’s another whopper of a LIE from biblical scholar, Ken Johnson. He next quotes Cyprian (here’s Ken’s exact wording, which by the way is not a direct quote from Cyprian).
Ken: “When the terrible things begin to happen, that time of the 7 year tribulation (never mentioned by Cyprian) it’s our greatest advantage to depart as quickly as possible, and he will snatch us hence”
WHAT A LIAR! Ken is quoting from Cyprian’s Treatise 7, which is about MORTALITY and DEATH, and specifically the plague. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the PTR. The quote comes in at the end of chapter 25 and the beginning of chapter 26. Read it for yourselves.
Ken is not JUST misquoting these ECF’s, he is LYING.
The interpretation that Ken probably used, because of the verbiage “snatch”. It’s from a Catholic site (go figure that he would quote that version).
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050707.htm
Here’s a straight up PDF version
http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF%20Books/MORTALITY%20by%20St%20Cyprian.pdf
——>Well, I have not seen any claims from anyone on this board about a “secret” Rapture.
Those who first heard of it (from Edward Irving, Margaret Mcdonald, John Darby, etc...) described it as SECRET, like the biblical scholar below, who was present at the utterances of Margaret Mcdonald, in Edward Irving’s church. Note how many times he uses the word Secret.
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? S. P. Tregelles. March 17, 1864.
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a SECRET coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether any one ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin. p. 26.”
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
****
It’s no wonder that the PTR community doesn’t like the descriptor word “SECRET”. Doesn’t matter if YOU lay claim to it or not. That’s how it was described at it’s inception, and it has stuck.
Nope.
Too Roman and too Popish.
But that’s sort of the problem with every day after learning how the Sovereign tells time.
Professor, I’m not even 5 minutes into the video and Ken has already lied 3 times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Nv-xFig8I. Ken does not lie.
Ken and Andy are LIARS BY OMISSION. I just proved it x3 and that’s not even 5 minutes into that video (with Ken). Professor Dude, I literally just proved it.
With the discovery that the Rapture was taught even by the Essenes, the lie that it was a secret is defeated. But we must remember we are not dealing with a healthy mind. The poster is given to obsessions and tactics such as false characterizations, bullying, badgering and out right lying. Such a sick mind is beyond any human correction. Only God;’s Spirit can remove the satanic Gordian knot of lies and fabrications.
The first huge clue was the posters immediate accusation that Ken Johnson is a liar and that Andy Woods, Gary Stearman, and Mondo Gonzalez are purposely spreading a false gospel. The second huge clue is the SDA cultboi’s obsession with the sexual sins of Ravi Zacharias.
Jesus return has been imminent since he ascended to Heaven.
——>The first huge clue was the posters immediate accusation that Ken Johnson is a liar and that Andy Woods, Gary Stearman, and Mondo Gonzalez are purposely spreading a false gospel.
I stand by that. I made it perfectly clear what Ken did in posts 44, 45, and 48. Absolute deception. And, I’ve only just got started, thanks to you and the video.
——>The second huge clue is the SDA cultboi’s obsession with the sexual sins of Ravi Zacharias.
It could have been any of his other sins as well. However, Sexual sins are what the Nicolaitans were known for. OSAS/OJAJ are modern-day Nicolaitans. Ravi was their/your poster boy (poster boi???).
——>With the discovery that the Rapture was taught even by the Essenes, the lie that it was a secret is defeated.
That has absolutely NOTHING to do with why it’s called the SECRET rapture.
You’ve filled the thread with lies. As usual.
However, I’m curious to know how you came to the following conclusion:
“However, Sexual sins are what the Nicolaitans were known for. OSAS/OJAJ are modern-day Nicolaitans.”
I must be blind as a bat or either you’re lying again.
How do you look yourself in the mirror?
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