[cherry]

Vatican 2 ushered in many of these changes....

in the long view of our society, it is always better when you have sound marriages with children....

Vat 2 basically said that reproduction was not the main reason for sex, that sex was for pleasure as well...."mutual satisfaction" of the partners....

so we've reduced the reproduction act to one of satisfaction....so if joe and jerry like to shove it up each others arse, and its satisfying, so be it....

we need parameters and we need societal norms and we have none....everything and any thing goes....

[G Larry]

You may be surprised to learn that the Church of England didn't much care about Roman Catholic's Vatican 2.

What is your citation in Vatican 2 documents, for your "Vat 2 basically said...." claim?

While I'm not thrilled with some of the ambiguity in Vatican 2, which allowed the ill-willed to make changes that were never intended, I'm not aware of anything that supports your assertion.

And yes, I have a copy at hand.

[Ge0ffrey]

It wasn’t Vatican II. This article is about the Church of England. The culprit with Protestants was the Lambeth Conference that first allowed artificial contraception. It’s been downhill for Protestants ever since.