Sunday Mass Sermon- How Many Will Be Saved?

Word on Fire Ministry ^ | 8.21.22 | Bishop Robert Barron

[MurphsLaw]

A deeper, controversial Homily on today's Gospel reading that we still ask even today.
In not giving us a direct answer as Jesus didn't,
the Bishop highlights how we must "strive"
to truly seek that answer.

13 min. YouTube link below:

How Many Will Be Saved?

[MurphsLaw]

A deep look at the "country-clubism" mentality that is found across all walks of Christian identity.

Jesus does not answer the question the way it is asked.
We must strive for that narrow gate.

[one guy in new jersey]

dare we hope

[Bookshelf]

The ‘Eye of the needle” that we must pass through was the most narrow gate in the old city of Jerusalem whereby two camels could not march two abreast; they would have to enter single file. But enter they could.

[maro]

So one interpretation is each man must enter heaven on his own merits, and not as part of a group. And that questions about how many can enter are not relevant.

[nevadapatriot]

Um, narrow gate that only fits 144,000?

[MurphsLaw]

So you understand that position better now?

[Bookshelf]

It is not just one interpretation, as you suggest; I believe it is the only interpretation.

[MurphsLaw]

So one interpretation is each man must enter heaven on his own merits


Well not exactly,
Striving for the narrow gate means to cooperate with God’s unmerited Grace he has given us, to love him above all else and obey his commandments.
So we strive to repent of our sins that keep us from God, have faith, and be baptized.
If we do happen to commit a mortal sin, and are truly contrite- we need to repent of that sin, have faith, and go to confession.
But none of that is accomplished on our own, but through God’s Grace.

[one guy in new jersey]

It’s not a position.

It’s a cry for help.

[Srednik]

Read John 3. You must be “born again from on high.” Being an RC is not mentioned.

[MurphsLaw]

Are you suggesting it’s a cry for help in the wilderness?

But seriously… was there ANYTHING in that homily you could find disagreeable?

Anything?
Do you agree with BB’s critique about the “country-club” ethos of proclaiming one saved by default of having club status?

[one guy in new jersey]

Please don’t make me listen to BB.

I have absolutely heard as much from him as I can stomache.

[one guy in new jersey]

For your sake I got through 3:25 of it.

I made it to the part where he so self-referentially, so self-back-pattingly, says: “Therefore, I’ve staked out the position that we may hope that all people be saved.”

Staked out the position? Could BB love himself any more thoroughly?

I had to bail at that point to avoid vomiting.

The light and airy mood BB sets when discussing this topic, is itself mortifying. The man is breezily inviting others to get a good belly laugh at the expense of those who are (wisely) keen to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. Compared to smiling, friendly, chipper, all-forgiving BB, those saints, and the Apostle Paul, who speak gravely of hell and damnation, can’t help but be seen by those invited “others” as hyperventilating Debbie Downers, worthy of nothing other than to be ignored.

BB’s approach to this “famously controversial matter” (once again, this kind of rhetoric is disgustingly and duplicitously self-referential, given that he himself has been almost a one man army trying to gin up support for his opinion, which he himself merely stole from Hans Urs von Balthasar) can’t help but strengthen the currently raging storm by which our Blessed Lady tells us innumerable souls are falling into hell like snowflakes.

[MurphsLaw]

Please don’t make me listen to BB.

I was going to chat you back… I would not want you, or anyone to be "made" to listen. That goes against all FReeper ethos… You had sent me that Taylor vid link – so I was just offering you the Bishop defending his position that has cause the “vehement” controversy enveloping him.
Always keep in mind the Bishop is not trying to reach you- or the TLM crowd- or ruffle your feathers…
He is reaching out to “nones”, fallen away Catholics, and luke-warm Catholics who aren't even aware of Baal or the fire “challenge” yet.

I made it to the part where he so self-referentially, so self-back-pattingly, says: “Therefore, I’ve staked out the position that we may hope that all people be saved.” Staked out the position? Could BB love himself any more thoroughly?

Self referential? Hell Yes its self-referential- unless you know of ANY other human being who is as public as BB – and has been derided for it – more than BB on this subject?

Patting himself on the back? You’re just looking for a reason to quibble. The immediate sentence BEFORE his “staking out” was that the CHURCH has never proclaimed anyone is in hell… so he is building off CHURCH teaching to develop (as the Catechism does- as well as Balthasar which he has always mentuioned) the position that we can in fact Hope that all our saved.
Yes he is the only one to do so- but why do you think he would pat himself on the back for drawing the ire- and rebuke- of many good Catholic notables so visible in the Church- and usually oppose to Pope Francis. I just don’t agree with any need to diminish his ability and success of delivering the Gospel. He tells us almost every homily he is a sinner- even is this video- which he AFFIRMS AGAIN that there is a hell… and he himself has experienced- as many of us have- a hell in this lifetime.

I had to bail at that point to avoid vomiting.

Really… that bad, or just a squeamish constitution?

The light and airy mood BB sets when discussing this topic, is itself mortifying. The man is breezily inviting others to get a good belly laugh at the expense of those who are (wisely) keen to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

Compared to smiling, friendly, chipper, all-forgiving BB, those saints, and the Apostle Paul, who speak gravely of hell and damnation, can’t help but be seen by those invited “others” as hyperventilating Debbie Downers, worthy of nothing other than to be ignored.

So…. What ever happened to the GOOD News? Evangelium ??

In those first 3 minutes he was try to convey the reluctance of the discussion- and the “vehement” animosity he has been subjected to. But no, even after all the flak and abuse he has taken - he seems to be a happy person, with a sense of humor God has given to everyone.
He is also a man who believes in the unfathomable love and mercy of God- who can do anything.
JOY !!!
Debbie Downers need not apply…lol
If receiving the Eucharist every week (or Day) does NOT transform one into joyous, happy Children of God- at least commensurate with the Grace conveyed through His sacrifice…. Then, well that’s just a sad place to be, for one who is missing the Word.
. But you are right- there are many dour, unhappy unfulfilled- ungrateful Catholics who darken the pews of every parish.
Bah Humbug I say !!!!!!!!!!

But what ever happened to …. “My yoke is easy and my burden is light” ? lol Becareful, you sound a bit Calvinistic… dammit…

BB’s approach to this “famously controversial matter” (once again, this kind of rhetoric is disgustingly and duplicitously self-referential, given that he himself has been almost a one man army trying to gin up support for his opinion, which he himself merely stole from Hans Urs von Balthasar) can’t help but strengthen the currently raging storm by which our Blessed Lady tells us innumerable souls are falling into hell like snowflakes.

Free will is a (“B” word here).

I find it a bit baseless to pass judgement on a 13 min clip after only 3.5 minutes. He was just getting started, and had to treat the Gospel with this foundation you did not like- SO AS TO make sure he would not be mis-characterized.
Had Egg Bud watched this he would have to refrain from falsely accuse BB of saying that “BB did not believe in the existence of hell”. He still well probably- but that’s his issue.

Certainly those last 10 minutes could have been moving- thought provoking… there were some highlights…

He urges us to make sure we are separating “HOPE” – or not conflating Hope with Knowledge or expectation- when we are looking at eternal damnation trying to square that with God wanting “all men be saved”.

He asks us to wonder of those who may feel that unless there arent lotsa of people in hell... than it doesn't really matter if they get to Heaven- “What’s the point if everyone gets in then”
So he raises the issue that a desire to condemn many to hell make our own case look more desirable.
Do you think there are those who may think like that?

BB hits it out of the park by interpreting for us the actions of the person who is asking Christ “Will Many be saved”- in a way I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT EXPLAINED. If you have – please share….
But the Bishop carefully explains how this Jew would approach Christ as an “insider” confident he is already counted among the saved- wondering about all the others…
What does Christ tell him???
“ Dont think your "insider" status will be enough to save you.” (So much for Aassured Salvation for our non-denom brethren right there…)
Christ follows with the “Lord, Lord” scenario here….. Israelite insiders knocking- as the only ones to be saved – Knocking on the door – but the Master says… “I DO NOT know where you are from !!
The Jew says to the Master- “look I'm one of your own”- But the Master will say…
” I do not know where you come from”
br> There.IS.NO.Guarantee. for anyone….

BB shows in the Gospel how Jesus tells us that people from East, West North an south will recline at the Heavenly banquet in god's kingdom- taking the place of those who think they are assured, beyond question.
Gentiles taking the place of the Israelite in Heaven … Whoa… that’s a wake up call from Jesus.

The best part you missed out on- is the conclusion of his homily… where we learn
We are the Jew, the Israelite- who Jesus is telling US - to expand our imaginations-!
Beyond what we think we know as certain…
“Expand our sense of what is possible"…. In that WE NEED TO STRIVE FOR THAT NARROW GATE !!
AND REALIZE…God’s Love and Mercy extends past our small-mindedness of whats possible... “Don't play that game”- that we are guaranteed- don’t act that way…
let your HOPE expand to be as great as the mercy of God.

As Fr. Matt would always ask us at the end of his homilies…

Are we doing that?

[one guy in new jersey]

Thanks for the summary of what followed.

I told you I have pious ears to let you know that BB’s angle on this is ripe for theological censure.

The specific indictment being: piarum aurium offensiva (offensive to pious ears).

I surmise that BB does not concern himself with any such indictment because he has friends in high places.

[one guy in new jersey]

All should have pious ears. Have you?

[one guy in new jersey]

For your consideration, at leisure:

George Weigel ran into the teeth of such an indictment (once again, in the form of a proposition, because, like BB, Weigel is a modernist who fears no theological censure.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/06/neo-triumphalism-george-weigels.html?m=1

Neo-Triumphalism: George Weigel’s Offenses Against Pious Ears

[one guy in new jersey]

As you can see, this is a chronic problem with the dyed-in-the-wool modernist authors, theologians, and prelates among us, to wit and for example: Weigel, Barron, Bugnini, Bergoglio.

[ebb tide]

BB hits it out of the park by interpreting for us the actions of the person who is asking Christ “Will Many be saved”- in a way I HAVE NEVER HEARD IT EXPLAINED. If you have – please share….

That's B.S. Christ said many will be saved; He never said all will be saved.

Yet Boobie, dares hope Hell is empty. And you have claimed you share his false hope.

[one guy in new jersey]

As if on cue:

Tim Gordon

For parish orphans and retrogrades...

Bp. Barron Triples Down on Reasonable Hope Hell Empty
394
Likes
3,452
Views
Aug 22
2022

In a recent Word on Fire video (link:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEs3f2U...) Bishop Barron once again asserted that hell might be empty—I discuss this on today’s livestream.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPfPnDUt3AY

__________

Not for nothing, but BB seemingly never squarely addresses fairly articulated criticisms lodged by the likes of Tim Gordon and Taylor Marshall.

Perhaps he considers it beneath him to do so.