To: MurphsLaw
" So you know, there were actually 5 copies of "Tobit" found in the Qumran deposit of Sacred Writings used by the Essenes- the ascetic Jews who saw the Temple as defiled and corrupt, Just as Christ did. Now you may question which books of the Canon the Holy Spirit got wrong...and which ones were right as decided upon by the Catholic Church... But what is not debatable for you is that the The Jewish sect of Essenes DID believe "such fantastic tales" (as you say) as sacred scripture along side their other sacred scrolls- as the DSS historical evidence has proven. Even post-Christian rabbinical Judaism that came after the Resurrection can't refute that.."You are simply displaying ignorance and invalidating your argument. The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date from around 250 B.C. to 68 A.D. were found in Eleven caves containing nearly 1,100 ancient documents which included several scrolls and more than 100,000 fragments. 2 Fragments from every Old Testament book except for the book of Esther were discovered. (The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. The oldest known piece of biblical Hebrew is a fragment from the book of Samuel discovered in Cave 4, and is dated from the third century B.C.4) Other works included apocryphal books, commentaries, manuals of discipline for the Qumran community, and theological texts. Meaning they contain Biblical as well as apocryphal works, prayers and legal texts and sectarian documents. For instance, Cave 2 contains much of the Hebrwew canon along with 2Q21: Apocryphon of Moses
2Q22: Aprocyrphon of David
2Q23: Apocyrphal prophecy
2Q24: New Jerusalem
2Q25: Legal documents
2Q26: Enoch Giants
2Q27-33: unclassified
More details here.
Likewise, Cave 4, where fragments of Tobit were found, contain a mixture of parts of some Scripture texts along with other writings, including sectarian documents.
Thus according to your standard, since all such were found along sacred scripture then all must be scripture just as you claim your fable was!
And your own Bible notes themselves (right from the Vatican) affirms that the Book of Tobit "combines specifically Jewish piety and morality with oriental folklore."
Thus your attempt to invoke the DSS as well as any attempt to disparage my judgment of Tobit as a fable is in vain.
" Now you may question which books of the Canon the Holy Spirit got wrong...and which ones were right as decided upon by the Catholic Church..."
Now you are attempting another invalid argument, for there is no imputation of error by the Holy Spirit in my reproof your fable, and that the Catholic Church finally settled the canon rightly is simply begging the question, assuming the very thing you can only wish could be proven, but to the contrary it is not.
61 posted on
03/06/2022 10:21:40 PM PST by
daniel1212
(Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save U + be baptized + follow Him!)
To: daniel1212
You are simply displaying ignorance and invalidating your argument.
Thank You for that Christian salutation.
While you think you can deflect from your off the cuff Tobit-smack-
YOU clearly had stated YOUR disbelief that one should (or could) believe in those writings of what we call “Tobit”-
which I reminded you - 5 copies, more than any other book had been found being used by the Essenes. They thought something of that book then to be sure. NO disbelief on their part.
So I indeed had to correct you and make you aware that Tobit was in fact a reading of the most pious and ascetic Jews, the Essenes, of CHRIST’S day- which they clearly held a place for Tobit in their worship community. You were wrong to suggest that no one could believe Tobit in Christ’s day… ancient Israel – you just can’t admit to it.
Thus according to your standard, since all such were found along sacred scripture then all must be scripture just as you claim your fable was!
No, this is your lack of understanding. No one would suggest the Essenes “Community Rule” was sacredly inspired. Obviously MANY of the writings of the Qumran find WERE NOT scriptural in nature. For you to infer this shows the weakness of your position.
25% of what was found in the caves did not have a liturgical import. For you to use this false comparison to discredit Tobit, is a straw man deflection.
You might note that none of these other writings were found to be inspired as the Catholic Church Councils determined Tobit,
-and others to be –
and keep in mind -it is at THIS point WHAT WAS DECIDED UPON AS SACRED SCRIPTURE by Church magisterium, for what we like to call the CHRISTIAN Holy Bible…
along with Macabees and the Deutero…
The CHURCH – BY the divine Grace and guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT - determined the canonicity of what was to be considered Sacred.
(Though you reject Maccabees in the same way- disregarding that Christ even celebrated what would become "Chanukah")
You have to have a plausible answer then, why the Holy Spirit would allow this Church error of canonicty to exist for over 1000 years.
I am curious how you spin that.
84 posted on
03/07/2022 11:01:32 AM PST by
MurphsLaw
("We are not Saved by the Words of God per se, rather We are Saved by the Word of God, Made Flesh.")
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