Daily Mass Gospel Reflection- Linear Progression

Word on Fire Ministry ^ | 11.26.21 | Aux. Bishop R. Barron

[MurphsLaw]

Friday, November 26, 2021

Thirty-fourth Week in Ordinary Time

Luke 21:29-33

Friends, in today’s Gospel passage, Jesus speaks of the time when the plan of God will be fulfilled. Some philosophies defend a circular or cyclic understanding of time. They hold that time just continually circles back on itself, repeating like the cycles of the seasons. The modern philosopher Nietzsche spoke of the “eternal return of the same.” That’s a mythic consciousness, and it can be found all over the world.

But the Jews had a very different sense of time, what we might call “linear.” They felt that time was moving somewhere, that it had, under God’s direction, a purpose. The past was not simply there to be repeated endlessly; rather, the past was a preparation for a definitive future. It was an anticipation of what God would do, what God was going to accomplish.

The Lord assures us that the kingdom of God is near and that we must prepare for its coming.

[MurphsLaw]

+++Jesus told his disciples a parable.
“Consider the fig tree and all the
other trees.
When their buds burst open,
you see for yourselves and know that
summer is now near;
in the same way, when you see these
things happening,
know that the Kingdom of God is
near.
Amen, I say to you, this generation
will not pass away
until all these things have taken place.
Heaven and earth will pass away,
but my words will not pass away.”+++

[MHGinTN]

In your attempt to post teaching from scripture it is best to cite thebook, chapter, and verse number, when you stand two passages up as if one passage.

[MHGinTN]

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

[MHGinTN]

By looking at the verses you posted in the context of Jesus's teac hing, conflating the Temple discourse with the Olivet Discourse can be avoided, and the passages can be seen for the times in which they are tyo be fulfilled.

in the Temple Discourse from Luke's Gospel account, the inhabitants of Jerusalem are being warned to watch for the signs, escpecially the city encircled by armies (the Romans of Tacitus and his father who went back to Rome to settle the issue of who would be enthroned as Emperor).

It is said that perhaps a million foliks were spared from the Roman massacre in 70AD because of the warnings Jesus directed directly to the people in the Temple.

But Jesus goes even further, warning to a future people (the generation that sees the whole Earth events happening) of things to come to pass someday upon the whole Earth. He states emphatically that the generation that sees all tyhose things happening will not pass away until He returns physically. When He says this gemneration that sees all these things shall not pass away . He was not referring to the generation who witnessed the Roman Armies surrounding Jerusalem.

It is a common error by teachers today to confglate the generation warned about the Roman Armies and the generation who witness all the signs Jesus said were of the end of the Age.

[MHGinTN]

Luke 21:20 identifies to whom He addressed the fall of Jerusalm. Then He shifts gears and identifies a generation when the whole Earth shall be in perplexity and He says THIS generation, the ones who are alive when the whole Earth is undergoing the perplexity (wrath of God), Luke 21:27 should look up because He is coming back physically to set foot upon the Earth and bringing The Kingdom of God to mankind.

Two different generations Jesus speaks of, not to be conlated so that the meanign for our generation is muddled in with what happened when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, executing vengence for the crucifying of Messaiah. And the Romans were the instrument God used to apply His vengence.

[MHGinTN]

Pingaling, if you are so inclined for another Catholic conflation.

[metmom]

Imagree that Jesus is talking about two different generations.

Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense.

[MHGinTN]

He is referring to two different generations of Jews.

[SouthernClaire]

“He is referring to two different generations of Jews.”

Precisely, MHG. It’s as plain as day and I don’t understand the confusion it brings.

[Mark17]

Precisely, MHG. It’s as plain as day and I don’t understand the confusion it brings.

That’s because you have the Holy Spirit enlightening your mind. When I was a Catholic, I was unsaved, and I didn’t understand spiritual issues either. It’s easy to figure out, that unspiritual people, trying to understand spiritual issues, is an exercise in futility. 😀👍☝️

[MHGinTN]

Yup, Bro, as the Bible says, ‘for they are spiritually discern.’

[Mark17]

Yup, Bro, as the Bible says, ‘for they are spiritually discern.’

When I was in that other religion, I had many false doctrines, deeply imbedded in my soul. After I got saved, the false doctrines, gradually weeded themselves out, simply by reading scripture. 👍😀

[SouthernClaire]

“That’s because you have the Holy Spirit enlightening your mind. When I was a Catholic, I was unsaved, and I didn’t understand spiritual issues either. It’s easy to figure out, that unspiritual people, trying to understand spiritual issues, is an exercise in futility.”

Rightio, bro-bro. Kind of like my oft misunderstanding of lyrics:

I gave a girl a ride in my wagon
She crawled in and took control
She was tired as her mind was a dragon
I said get some sleep and dream of rock’n’roll

[MurphsLaw]

In your attempt to post teaching from scripture it is best to cite thebook, chapter, and verse number, when you stand two passages up as if one passage.

The scripture for the Mass Gospel reading ARE cited.
The actual Gospel is also posted as well. Again- it's from the Daily Mass Reading... nothing beyond that.
I share a Reflection - not a "teaching" as you assume... the "Relection" is not asking to be exegetically dissected by Biblical PhD's or scholars of ancient languages searching for clues.
While your "Free" to comment as you wish, they are not meant to be commented on... but are shared only as a means for personal contemplation... which is the purpose of any Reflection.
As a Reflection, the intent is to see how the specific Mass Gospel is working in our life- and how we are cooperating with the Gospel.
The intent is to see our reflection, our own personally spiritual growth and learn where we are missing how to live the Christian life- so as it can hopefully reflect for another.

[boatbums]

While your "Free" to comment as you wish, they are not meant to be commented on... but are shared only as a means for personal contemplation... which is the purpose of any Reflection. As a Reflection, the intent is to see how the specific Mass Gospel is working in our life- and how we are cooperating with the Gospel. The intent is to see our reflection, our own personally spiritual growth and learn where we are missing how to live the Christian life- so as it can hopefully reflect for another.

That may well be, but the title implied this is talking about "linear" time, right?

But the Jews had a very different sense of time, what we might call “linear.” They felt that time was moving somewhere, that it had, under God’s direction, a purpose. The past was not simply there to be repeated endlessly; rather, the past was a preparation for a definitive future. It was an anticipation of what God would do, what God was going to accomplish.

Not to mention, the Roman Catholic church does teach Replacement Theology, the idea that the church has replaced Israel and God is done with the Jewish nation/people. Then there's the Catholic church's Preterism, which holds everything Jesus foretold would happen in his teachings about "end times" already occurred in the first century A.D. Myself and others reading your post and knowing the differences we share with your church on some of these subjects, I'd hope you might appreciate why MHGINTN challenged the combining of two passages (without citation) that appeared to say something Jesus didn't.

[MurphsLaw]

You guys must have a lot of time on your hands...lol...

You clearly are looking to pre-suppose non-sequitur arguments for some odd reason- by taking a simple reflection meant for personal contemplation out of context.
The post CLEARLY is contrasting linear time with a non-Christian ideal of circular time as found in secular theory. The post Clearly states a finite end of linear time at God's command...

There's no reading anymore into that...unless the desire burns.
Please re-read the part you overlooked:

Some philosophies defend a circular or cyclic understanding of time. They hold that time just continually circles back on itself, repeating like the cycles of the seasons. The modern philosopher Nietzsche spoke of the “eternal return of the same.” That’s a mythic consciousness, and it can be found all over the world.

...The Lord assures us that the kingdom of God is near and that we must prepare for its coming.



The Reflection is about time, nothing more.

[MHGinTN]

Nice try, you fail. The passages refer to two separate generations of Jews, but your post sought to conflate them into ‘a’ generation, fitting with the Catholic teaching of replacement theology and a preterist view. Should we give you the benefit of doubt, that your teaching is inept? No, you claim the centuries of ‘church fathers’ teaching’, albeit the fathers taught different meanings based upon whether the Antioch School or the Alexandrian School.

[MHGinTN]

Your ‘teaching’ is assuming false premises, but you’re trying to deflect from that base of errors, yet your post is assuming those errors to be the truth upon which the ‘teaching’ is based.

[boatbums]

I think our FRiend may actually be unaware of the underlying issues pertinent to his OP. Where he sees this simply as a "reflection" and nothing more, others pick up on the subtle - dare I say "insidious" - insertion of Catholic dogma as if everyone should find no reason to disagree.

[MurphsLaw]

Wait just a dang minute here...
Are you suggesting a Catholic Bishop would dare speak or write about Catholic theology?- and with regard to the Liturgy of the Mass?...
Inconceivable!

Put down the Dan Brown books boys,...please.
You guys are a hoot...
Anyways, while I do enjoy our Catholic-smack / New Age repartee (and regret the RM shut down the thread)... Advent is now upon us, and tis the season to get ready and right for the Coming of Christ.
I'll still post for sure, but have to forego the scrum until Jan., and refocus throigh, and during this gift of preparation the Church sets aside for us.

And so you know, I still have lotsa questions needing answers! So...
God Bless, and stay safe!

"11 Now may God himself, our Father, and our Lord Jesus direct our way to you,
12 and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, just as we have for you.