Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Cronos

Just as I expected but not as I hoped, the comments here imediately devolved into useless judgmentalism. We all serve Christ first and foremost, so we do not need the approval of others, but of Christ.

So let’s look at this issue as logically as possible. There are two possibililties: Jesus will take up the church right before the Tribulation begins, or He will return with those who have died in Him, to retrieve those who are in Him but not dead, and establish His Kingdom.

We cannot speak with 100% certainty that either one has to be right and the other wrong, so instead, let’s ask the question: if I have to prepare for one, which preparation is more likely to strengthen my faith and make me useful to Christ for his work both at the End Times and in general?

The answer is clear. If I prepare for a pre-Trib Rapture and discover myself in Day Two of the Tribulation, I am unprepared for the suffering I will need to ensure for His sake, and much more likely to fail Him. If, howevr, I prepare for a post-Trib Rapture and discover myself with Christ in Day Zero of the Tribulation, I have lost nothing, since the preparation for the suffering of the Tribulation has also strengthened me to ensure whatever pre-Trib suffering I must ensure for Him.

So I am better off assuming there is not a pre-Trib Rapture and preparing myself in Him accordingly, expecting and considering it all joy when I am called to ensure suffering for His sake. To put it another way, the warrior prepares for the battle and is happy when the battles does not occur, rather than not preparing for the battle and then being at a loss when it does occur.


13 posted on 07/14/2021 6:13:45 AM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: chajin

The answer is clear. If I prepare for a pre-Trib Rapture and discover myself in Day Two of the Tribulation, I am unprepared for the suffering I will need to ensure for His sake, and much more likely to fail Him. If, howevr, I prepare for a post-Trib Rapture and discover myself with Christ in Day Zero of the Tribulation, I have lost nothing, since the preparation for the suffering of the Tribulation has also strengthened me to ensure whatever pre-Trib suffering I must ensure for Him.

I came to the conclusion a couple of years ago that we don’t know how BAD it might be before a rapture. It might be 99 percent of what we refer to as the Tribulation. So, I think you are quite correct with your advice. We have seen enough movies and read enough books to tell us all is well and then boom the Tribulation. It might not be that way.


23 posted on 07/14/2021 6:32:59 AM PDT by taterjay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

To: chajin
So I am better off assuming there is not a pre-Trib Rapture and preparing myself in Him accordingly

Yes but no. Tribulation can come to us at anytime. We have to be prepared.

Countless believers have already been martyred in countless tribulations. They proved with their life that they were as you say, prepared accordingly even though, for them, there was no rapture.

Steeling oneself to endure hardships during the Great Tribulation raises a theological question. Which gospel will you follow during the Tribulation of Revelation?

Paul in Gal 1:8-9 warns us that:

Gal 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!" Gal 1:9 "As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

Paul's gospel is about faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins whereas during the Tribulation there is a different gospel as shown in Rev 14:6-7:

Rev 14:6 "Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people". Rev 7 "He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

Clearly, the everlasting gospel in Rev 14:6-7 is different from Paul's gospel yet Paul placed a curse on any man, or angel from heaven that preaches a different gospel.

A rapture makes reconciling Gal 1:8-9 and Rev 14:6-7 straightforward in that the body of church age believers are not present on earth when the Everlasting Gospel of Rev 14:6-7 is being preached.

30 posted on 07/14/2021 7:03:43 AM PDT by fso301
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

To: chajin; Campion; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; ...
"So I am better off assuming there is not a pre-Trib Rapture and preparing myself in Him accordingly, expecting and considering it all joy when I am called to ensure suffering for His sake. To put it another way, the warrior prepares for the battle and is happy when the battles does not occur, rather than not preparing for the battle and then being at a loss when it does occur."

This is true, and I myself believe that God will preserve His elect thru the Great Trib and then take them up as part of the first resurrection, which day of Christ, the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1) shall not come, "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

After that "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

And will go with Him to fight in the Battle or Armageddon:

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:14-15)

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 14-15)

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:19-20)

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (Revelation 20:1-3)

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6)

Also after the first resurrection is the judgment seat of Christ which is not that of the Great White Throne judgment, which is part of the day of Christ, of His appearing before the 1,000 year reign, and which is not to determine who is saved or lost and their particular punishment, but is the judgment of the elect, which determines their rewards of less thereof based upon their manner of workmanship they helped build church with. Yet one is saved despite loss, and not because of such:

Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)

For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5)

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 1:7)

Thus Paul saidHenceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)

And

they shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are [cf. 19:20], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:6-15)

Now if the first resurrection itself has two parts separated by a thousand years, with the rapture/catching away occurring before the Great Tribulation, then it is a win/win situation for those who prepared for the latter, while if not, then those who believe they would be delivered from it are likely to be disillusioned when experiencing the persecution of the Tribulation. Yet we can hardly expect to be more favored than the first century church which was warned and exhorted "to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22)

While can allow for disagreement on this, yet the denial of the 1,000 year reign of Christ - literally referred to 6 times and not "as" in 2 Peter 3:8 simile - is simply untenable in the light of the clear statements which teach of two resurrections and two judgments separated by 1,000 years. Sometimes we have references to one judgment, (John 5:28,29) but further on details of time are given, by the grace of God.

111 posted on 07/15/2021 8:07:09 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

To: chajin; boatbums; Roman_War_Criminal; daniel1212; MHGinTN; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; Luircin; ...

We shouldn’t be living in such a way that we have to decide to prepare ourselves.

That then becomes man’s work in sanctification, not God’s.

If one is living a Christ honoring life of sanctification, then one is always ready.

This concept of thinking that just because we expect to be spared the judgement of the Tribulation we can be lazy and take stuff for granted, is as bad as people who claim that the security of the believer makes one careless about sin and so they go out and sin wantonly.

Someone who is a genuine believer never takes sin lightly and would always want to live a life so that whatever happens, rapture or death, we are as ready as possible to stand before Christ.

So while we are trusting that Jesus will take us out of the world when God pours out His wrath in judgment on it, we also recognize that nobody is guaranteed their next breath.

So if you are ready to die, then you are by default, ready for the rapture.


114 posted on 07/15/2021 9:52:47 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith……)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

To: chajin; boatbums; Roman_War_Criminal; daniel1212; MHGinTN; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; Luircin; ...

We shouldn’t be living in such a way that we have to decide to prepare ourselves.

That then becomes man’s work in sanctification, not God’s.

If one is living a Christ honoring life of sanctification, then one is always ready.

This concept of thinking that just because we expect to be spared the judgement of the Tribulation we can be lazy and take stuff for granted, is as bad as people who claim that the security of the believer makes one careless about sin and so they go out and sin wantonly.

Someone who is a genuine believer never takes sin lightly and would always want to live a life so that whatever happens, rapture or death, we are as ready as possible to stand before Christ.

So while we are trusting that Jesus will take us out of the world when God pours out His wrath in judgment on it, we also recognize that nobody is guaranteed their next breath.

So if you are ready to die, then you are by default, ready for the rapture.


115 posted on 07/15/2021 9:53:26 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith……)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson