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To: MurphsLaw
You asked of me a mere mortal something that is beyond my purview; ONLY God knows the state of an individual spirit, not humans since we are not presently configured to sense the spirit aside from sensing the Presence of God in us, abiding in our spirit. So you asked: "Why arent I saved then? i was baptized. I believe in the creed...and the Resurrected Jesus as my Savior... why am I not saved then too ?"

You started your query with acts performed, baptized, believed the creeds ... I can only respond with what I am aware of, that as Abraham I believed God, God's Promise FIRST. His Promise is 'Believe on Whom He sent for your salvation and you shall be saved.'

There are three 'tenses' to salvation. First saved from the penalty for sin; justification issued by the Supreme Judge, an action ONLY God can perform for it is against His Holy Righteousness that our sin places us and Only the One offended can give exoneration.

The second tense is being saved from the power of sin, the habituation of sinning. This tense, this phase is a cooperative effort, whereby we new borns sense God;s abiding Spirit in our alive human spirit and follow His urgings to resist the temptations that before we fell for. when we were born again, in that instant His taking up residence in our spirit generates a sensitivity to what offends HIM, and our will which has been redirected then feels that offending and desires to not be an offense. We literally have a sensitivity to what our soul (not our spirit, our behavior mechanism soul of mind, will, and emotion) is tempted by. That sensitivity must originate from what became our reality when GOD Justified us.

Allow me as a man of 75 years, forty plus of which have been post Justification. When I was in my twenties I was drawn to pornographic anything. I felt no guilt at oogling the nudity or the sexual 'implications'. After I was Born Again I immediately had a negative reaction to female nudity and or 'implications'. I did not sex was bad, I sensed that I was allowing something to pull me into temptation which The Spirit in my Spirit deemed 'restricted, not wholesome for my baby status in Christ. It has been a rough and sometimes sad process to grow in Grace and Knowledge, but He has not left me or foresaken me once I began conforming in tiny ways to the Character of The Christ, to the finction of His character in me always seeking tovercome the temptation power of my soul's uncharacteristic behavior for a member of God's family. Has the temptation power of porn disappeared? No, but it cannot overpower me because I do not 'ping' to nudity, it is just nudity.

A further example: my son visited me a couple of months ago and we found a series available from Amazon Prime network which looked promising, a series based on the Tom Clancy character of Jack Ryan. We started the first episode and in the episode a woman is displayed from the right and behind, nude and about to involve with her Muslim husband. I was very uncomfortable with that but it passed quickly. An other episode had a sudden scene of nudity and implied sexial interaction. My sensitivity to porn was activated immediately and I would not allow my eyes to look at the TV and I turned off the episode. Do not want to be exposed to such coming into my behavior mechanism through my eyegate.

Before you jump to dismissing the reaction to my son being present, as if I would not look away and click the episode off if my son was not there, too, I can assure you that the Presence of His spirit in my spirit also guides me to stay away from such stuff now because it offends HIM in me. I cannot sin without sensing that offense to His Presence in me.

The third tense of salvation is a future being saved from the Presence of The man of Sin coming with the wrath of the Lamb ... yes, I am referring to the Rapture, which removes the Body of Christ Believers from the Earth where the man of sin will be in power over all the Earth for a seven tear season.

54 posted on 07/23/2021 7:46:42 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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One caveat: ONLY God and perhaps the angels know the state of the human spirit. Angels rejoice when a human comes to be reborn, so perhaps thy who exist in a coordinate system greater than our present configuration do sense the psirit of a human being. satan sure seems to focus more heavily on those who are born again, so perhaps he senses the escapee’s spirit.


55 posted on 07/23/2021 7:50:39 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN
Well I'm confused. I see very liitle difference between the way we view God's saving Grace. You do not hold what I perceive as traditional Protestant belief. And you may not want to hear this, but Church teaching has always confirmed "tenses" in our Salvation as well...
In Baptism we have been saved , (Peter, and rebirth of water and spirit)
In ours lives today- We are being saved, (Perfecting our Souls, working out our Salvation, living the Parable of the talents)
and upon our mortal death,
We have the hope that we will be saved, (Glorification) having maintained the state of our Baptismal Grace- having died with Christ and properly endured the sin and  sufferings of mortal life.....

I too can relate to the issue pornography similarly as well. Our culture exploits God's creation in new and abominable ways all the time..and do not dismiss the spirit of the communio you reference. That is the amazing part of family as the dynamic of that Spirit is present in differing forms within the family and is only present that way, and specific only in that family, and can be found nowhere else. And I would also guess that is downfall of someone committed to individualism - lacking in a shared Spirit.
I must ask though.
you saw the sin, and as all of us having proclivities or predispositions....you had to "Do" something to live your Faith abiding in the state of Grace God has given you. You had to "Do" something to avert sinfullness- turning off the teevee to aboif a turning away from God.
Whether you call that a "work" or not - either for yourself - or for the sake of your son's Faith journey-
Werent you heeding St. Paul's warning about losing Salvation?....In that,

......"do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? 
Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex men.... will inherit the kingdom of God.

56 posted on 07/24/2021 11:35:15 PM PDT by MurphsLaw ("He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit")
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