Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Rurudyne
"Did you not note the idea as the alternative of adultery? Or did you note that I did specify the era of the patriarchs to show that ceremonies as a necessary component came later in Israel?"

Did you not note that what you asserted was that "becoming one flesh, having sex....is always either becoming husband and wife or adultery" and which is contrary to Scripture as shown?

"Did you not note that becoming one flesh applies when those involved are not married? Or at least (because of OT polygamy) when she is not married and is eligible to marry the man?"

No: did you fail to note that becoming one flesh even applies to those who (according to your "one flesh=marriage metric) would have become married due to multiple partners (and do not even try to break the bounds of credulity by arguing the harlot only has relations with married men): "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." (1 Corinthians 6:16)

"Dinah’s fate is not explicitly settled by Scripture"

The point was and remains that her becoming one flesh/having sex, was not that of becoming a wife, directly contrary to your assertion.

"As for what Jesus said, that she had had 5 husbands ... and they were really her husbands ... would mean that she was free to marry numbers 2 through 5 but NOT the sixth. That could be satisfied if she was widowed by 1 through 4, but 5 was still alive ... thus she was an adulterer with the current guy ... and any potential in betweeners betwixt him and her still living husband.."

No: she became one flesh with the sixth as well, thus was married according to your metric since "two, saith he," shall be one flesh even with a prostitute. .

"I think my assertion hold up quite well."

Rather, it has manifestly failed and which makes you look like one who is forcing the Bible to validate you.

23 posted on 05/05/2021 10:42:12 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]


To: daniel1212

“No: she became one flesh with the sixth as well, thus was married according to your metric since “two, saith he,” shall be one flesh even with a prostitute.”

She was apparently not eligible to marry the sixth. So what they were doing wasn’t resulting in marriage, but adultery. That’s why he was not considered her husband by the Lord.

You’ve been neglecting something I keep saying, or at least trying to imply, and that is they must be eligible to marry for it to become marriage.

Two people not eligible to marry are not going to be considered husband and wife by the Lord no matter how much sex there is.

Marriage happens only where eligibility to marry exist ... that is the thought.

Also, that’s eligibility as was understood at the time. With the patriarchs that is before the Lord gave the Law as I pointed out previously.

But where eligibility to marry is in fact there, then I am arguing that is when they become married in the Lord’s eyes.

Earlier we spoke of Dinah. But there is another victim to consider and unlike Dinah that girl’s expectations about what was going to happen, and her attitude about what had happened are actually indicated.

First let me be absolutely clear, this girl was not, as I understand the Law, eligible to marry the particular jerk that raped her. Rather I’m citing her because, again, we have her opinions preserved.

To start listen to Tamar’s final plea to Amnon: `Because of the circumstances this evil is greater than the other that thou hast done with me — to send me away;’

“This evil” was sending her away after having raped her.

Before Amnon raped Tamar you can see how she, having finally perceived his evil intent, sought to at least rescue what she could for herself from a very bad situation when she said to him: `Nay, my brother, do not humble me, for it is not done so in Israel; do not this folly. And I — whither do I cause my reproach to go? and thou — thou art as one of the fools in Israel; and now, speak, I pray thee, unto the king; for he doth not withhold me from thee.’

Again, I would point out that half-brothers / half-sisters were under the Law no longer recognized as being eligible to marry.

Tamar seems to have weighed her options, decided that what he intended to do to her was worse than the (also bad) option of her father giving her to him, her own half brother, and tried to get him to at least let her have some dignity.

Personally I imagine, though we are not told, that Tamar did finally call out for help, and it went unheeded by Amnon’s servants, and that may have influenced Amnon’s hatred or her ... dude was a total scumbag ... and yet even after he raped her she makes it clear she would have rather not been sent away. Why? Well, what happened to her? That too we know, she lived out her life “desolate”.

Look, we live in a society so polluted that even virgins in our culture are often like Lot’s Sodom-tainted daughters. These seem far, far from being as upright as Tamar given her apparent scruples.

The pollution of the culture blinds people, and blinds them more the worse it becomes in them.

I like to compare this culture to a fetid cesspool that people live in, are used to living in, to the point that many folks imagine such fetid cesspools are just where people live. They can’t imagine better and after a certain point may even be offended by others who don’t want to live in their cesspool.

I also take it as a given that you’re NOT one content to live in the proverbial cesspool!

Where Isaiah recognized that he was a man of unclean lips among a people of unclean lips — which I take to mean nothing more and nothing less than he realized that there were things in his life and society that he thought were okay but he found out, having seen Holiness, weren’t okay in the least, but were simply bad — I kinda get the impression that many people in this society of ours might think they would get a pat on the back for being so nice and tolerant were they to be in Isaiah’s slippers.

Against such a society a little zeal, or perchance over-caution, is in order even if it may invite going too far the other way, being too prudish.

Not that I imagine it will happen. Romans 1:18-32 is apparently going on all over the place in society, and if so then far too many have already refused to retain the knowledge of the Lord.


24 posted on 05/05/2021 1:14:08 PM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson