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To: ebb tide
This was a good article. Just a tad weak on the documents of the council...but after 60 years things are forgotten. (Or hidden) Let me explain.

The quoting of soon -to-be Pope Benedict is not a wise one. Obviously the most outspoken critic of the council would have to be Marcel Lefebrve... who like marcel Luther .... decided YEARS after the council, he would break away and start his own Church.

He deemed, like Luther, that the Pope held no loosing or binding over Him, so It was off to SCHISM land We go - With whomever he could entice - and then excommunication. Hell or high water - no compromise....if the Church doesn’t listen... we do our own thing - where As they easily could have existed within the Church- as it’s own separate episcopate in some way. An ego play all the way.

Now the Ratzinger quote, undeniably true as it- is unfortunate. Where Pope John Paul 2 sought some common ground for reparation of this SSPX , his predecessor Pope Benedict- a scholarly intellectual of a Pope with regard to traditionalism- did in fact- declare the SSPX in 2009 - Schismatic... not having canonical status with the Church. Almost 40 years of thinking of this church splitting move and a leading figure of Vatican 2 said No - The Church cannot bless schism....

I say the article was weak on the documents, ai mean weak on defense of them. Yes the they get trashed... yada yada... but it is in fact some of the most beautifully inspired words written in our modern time... NOT ALL OF IT- but most of it. If we truly lived our lives in conformity to it... Latin and N.O. Rites.... we would not have the upheaval we have now. It is the minds of men that bend the meanings... NOT the documents themselves. How do I know this?

The MOST outspoken critic of Vatican 2 Council.... who would later put his ego and splitting of the Church ahead of trusting in the Holy Spirit....MARCEL LEFEBRVE SIGNED OFF ON APPROVAL OF EVERY COUNCIL DOCUMENT.... NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF AN ISSUE WITH THEM AT THE TIME OF THE COUNCIL...

So was the Council itself a problem?
So just how “bad” were these documents Then in real time For those who participated?
The Martin Luther of our times had no problem with the Council as he participated in it.
6 posted on 05/03/2021 10:33:27 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw
My bad it’s late .... BXVI Was successor to JP2, not his predecessor.....
7 posted on 05/03/2021 10:36:55 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“speak against the holy Ghost, it shall not be Forgiven him, in this world, NOR in the world to come)
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To: MurphsLaw

The biggest issue with the council is its vagueness; people would commit all kinds of nonsense and claim it was “in the spirit of Vatican II” - NOT IN THE WORDS THEMSELVES.


8 posted on 05/04/2021 3:49:29 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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