Posted on 01/25/2021 8:27:48 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A few years back one of my friends was trying to share the gospel with a guy who, after a while, started almost screaming at him, “What about the pygmies?? What about the pygmies??” My friend let the guy calm down for a second and then he asked him a simple question:
“Are you a pygmy?”
His point was, on the day of judgment it’s not going to be about those who may have never heard the gospel in general, but about you in particular. As C. S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity, “If you are worried about the people on the outside, the most unreasonable thing you can do is to remain outside yourself.”
That said, the question of what happens to those who supposedly never hear the gospel is something worth exploring and getting to the bottom of.
In approaching the question, it’s helpful to revisit some core biblical facts that aren’t up for dispute. The first is that an all-powerful, good, and all-knowing God exists who isn’t handicapped in any way when it comes to a person’s salvation: “Behold, the Lord’s hand is not so short that it cannot save” (Is. 59:1).
Next, Scripture makes it clear that, because of general revelation, and what John Calvin called the “sensus divinitatis”, everyone knows God exists and we are all without excuse when it comes to a basic knowledge of the Creator (Rom. 1:18-20).
Third, the Bible is unequivocal in its stance that salvation is obtained only through the work of Jesus Christ (Act 4:12) and that humanity is fallen and will not seek God on their own (Rom. 3). It doesn’t matter when or where a person is born, they will not come to God in and of themselves and instead must first be sought by God (John 6:44).
Lastly, God’s plan of salvation is one where not everyone is saved, but in fact only few are saved and most are lost.
There are at least four positions put forward when it comes to answering the question of those who’ve never heard the gospel. The first is universalism, which says that Jesus died for everyone on the cross and therefore all are saved whether they have heard of Him or not. The biblical evidence against universalism is very weighty and, because of that, it’s not a view to be embraced.
The second is an obscure stance called post-mortem evangelism. Based on 1 Peter 4:6, it asserts that after death those who don’t know about God/Jesus will be presented with the gospel and given a chance to accept it. There are myriads of problems with this stance (e.g. one should never use obscure passages in Scripture instead of clear ones to interpret key doctrines) and so it’s also one not held by the Church at large.
A third stance is called inclusivism and is the first of two positions that are held by the majority in Christendom. It teaches that people don’t need to directly hear the gospel, but instead are educated about God via nature and will be judged by the moral law inside everyone and what information they do possess. C. S. Lewis was one who held to this position, writing: “There are people in other religions who are being led by God’s secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religions which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it.”
The last majority position is called exclusivism (or restrictivism) and says that today a person must be presented with and accept the gospel in order to be saved.
The Bible’s plan of progressive revelation is best summed up by Charles Ryrie: “The basis of salvation in every age is the death of Christ; the requirement for salvation in every age is faith; the object of faith in every age is God; the content of faith changes in the various ages.”
Before Christ, “In the generations gone by He permitted all the nations to go their own ways; and yet He did not leave Himself without witness” (Acts 14:16). We’re told the faith of those in the Old Testament was sufficient for salvation just like the writer of Hebrews says: “For by it [faith] the men of old gained approval” (Heb. 11:2). The raising of some Old Testament saints after Christ’s resurrection (Matt. 27:52) serves as one proving point of this as Calvin says: "At the moment when He rose again, he deigned to make many of the saints partakers of his resurrection, and allow them to be seen in the city; thus giving a sure earnest, that everything which he did and suffered in the purchase of eternal salvation belonged to believers under the Old Testament, just as much as to us."[1]
Another good example is in the gospels and involves the tax collector spoken about by Jesus who, after confessing his sin, “went to his house justified” (the same word used elsewhere in the New Testament for salvation; Luke 18:14).
But today? We’re told: “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned” (Mark 16:15–16).
Paul says, “if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. . . .How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?” (Rom. 10:8-10, 14).
One of my favorite salvation stories told in this vein comes from a dean at Oxford who supported a missionary couple in Iran. The couple was driving in a desolate place, needed gas and stopped at a market. Outside was a heavily armed man in the Iranian military.
Before the man got out of the car, his wife said he should give the soldier a Bible and tucked one into his coat. When the man went inside to pay, the solider followed him in. Keep in mind that Christian evangelism in Iran can get you killed.
The man came out, got in the car, and drove off. “You didn’t give him the Bible did you?”, the wife asked. The husband reminded her about the penalty for evangelism, after which a wonderful argument ensued between the two, which resulted in him making a U-turn and going back to the market.
He got out of his car and, in great fear, approached the soldier and handed him the Bible. The soldier stood there silent for what seemed like forever, but then first he began to quiver and then started to cry. He looked up at the missionary and said, “Three days ago I had a dream where I was told to make a journey to this market and wait until a man came who would give me the book of life. Thank you.”
So, what about the pygmies? The reality is, because we are all born blind and deaf to God’s call, there is no difference between a native in a distant land who’s never seen a Bible or heard the gospel and someone dead in sin who is surrounded by Bibles and hears the gospel every week.
God saves those He saves regardless of where they currently are through His efficacious call and gospel message because, “Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you” (Jer. 32:17).
[1] Calvin, John Institutes of the Christian Religion (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2007), 285.
Elaine and J. Peterman could find them and knock them off. I mean, their sandals, not they Pygmies. But she has to stay off the poppy seeds first.
The answer is .... none of the above.
Only God knows for sure what happens to those people.
I’m gonna leave the anwer to that one to God. It doesn’t affet me one way or the other. I’ve heard the gospel, thus I am responsible for what I know.
Martin hits the button for the elevator.
Martin: Oh, sure. And that documentary on the rain forest is supposed
to be great.
Niles: That’s what I hear.
Martin: Hope it has pygmies, I like pygmies.
Niles: I know you do. So, where’s um...
Martin: Oh, she went out with Frasier to a restaurant for dinner.
Niles: Oh. She happen to ask about...?
Martin: Sorry.
The elevator arrives and they get in.
Reset to: the interior of the elevator.
Martin pushes a button and they start moving.
Niles: Dad, we’re going up.
Martin: Oh, oh, I’m sorry. Well, we’ll just have to take the long
way.
They ride up for a beat. Niles begins to get suspicious.
Niles: Why do you like pygmies so much?
Martin: They’re short and they blow darts. What’s not to like?
(Fraiser)
A number of folks who grew up in a godless hedonistic tribal communities got saved and gave their testimonies that while they lived in an ...anything goes... society where there were no set rules of morality, all the while they knew in their hearts that doing the things they did was wrong, and that they were missing something, and they sought in their hearts to find out what it was. GOD heard their hearts cry,, sent them missionaries who give them the gospel, and they became saved.
This illustrates that there is a ...universal moral code... written on everyone’s hearts, and they can freely choose to seek ... something higher... or ignore it and harden their hearts against the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
The Bible makes it very clear that there is more than enough evidence e I. Nature that points to a need for a creator, and therefore everyone will be judged on whether or not they hardened their hearts against the evidence and against the prompting of the Holy Spirit in each of their lives.
When men honestly seek, God provides a way. It is telling that many cultures went for long periods of time without honestly seeking. God will always save anyone who honestly seeks Him after responding to the prompting of the Spirit. The Bible tells us that not a single child of His will be lost. Every man has the Holy Spirit working in their life right up until the point that person totally turns their back on Him by refusing to listen to the prompting anymore. Sadly many cultures reject Him totally. Those within those cultures who listen to the Spirit, who seek that certain ...something higher..., God will provide a way to be saved
I think they have internet access now so no excuses.
The Bible says seek and you will find. That means everyone whether they know exactly what is they are seeking or not. Jesus is the light which enlightens every man (again, each man is responsible for what he does with that enlightenment, whether they accept and seek out God, or reject Him and the prompting of the Spirit. They may not know who they are seeking, but agai. God will show them if they honestly seek humbly)
since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so they are without excuse” (Romans 1)
I beleive that anyone who hasn’t heard, who knows there is more to life, have in their hearts a sense of moral right and wrong and haven’t hardened their hearts against this, who feel remorse for the immoral things they have done, and seek to follow a higher way as it were honestly, and not out of a sense of personal achievement that they can then boast in, that God will make a way for that person to beleive.
No man can get to God except except through Christ, that much is clear. God is a perfectly holy, perfectly just God who would never hide His word from anyone who honestly seeks Him, even if they don’t know that it is Him they are seeking. Anyone who looks around at the evidence, who listens to the Spirit in their heart revealing God’s presence, and revealing a higher moral code to them, God will bring to Him.
Now, can Jesus reveal Himself to the unlearned unsaved person in some remote part of the world without the need for some saved person to present the gospel to them? Perhaps. Can that person then follow as best as they know how and be saved because they recognize that this revealed Christ is the only way to be saved? I think perhaps the answer is yes. This person would obviously repent by accepting that they can not save themse,themselves,, but that Christ is needed for forgiveness. They throw themselves on Christ just as any saved perso. Did I beleive, because they realize in that instance that without C hrist, they are in hig trouble. Their hearts, the Holy Spirit too, reveal this to them.
Is all that possoble? I think so. GOD IS A LOVING God that doesn’t want anyone to perish who seek Him, and who won’t hide Himself from ANYONE who honestly seek Him after they listen to the Holy Spirits prompting in their lives,, and He will provide the way somehow to those who truly seek to find Him, even when they don’t realize it is God they are seeking, but who know they must find the one who’s handiwork is seen all around, and who listen honestly to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
This was probably quoted, but I couldn’t read through the entire diatribe.
Romans 1:
“18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Also, the bible DOES NOT contain ALL of God’s thoughts or Mysteries. God can do WHATEVER HE WANTS TO. SAVE WHOEVER HE WANTS TO.
There is also the consideration of what many consider the age of accountability, that children who die before a certain age are not held responsible for sin and thus covered by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross.
That said, considering the infant mortality rate in so many places in the world, that leaves it open for a high percentage of people from all those people groups to be saved.
As far as the person who is freaking out about people who have never heard, then the answer to them would be that they are now responsible to go and make sure they do hear. Especially if they feel that strongly about it.
However, likely that argument is to try to portray God as being unjust and thus giving them what they feel is a reason to reject Him.
Sorry, I lost the paragraphs when I replied.
I think heaven maybe more full than some seem to think, Lets start with the 63 million aborted here in the U.S. alone, then add all those done world wide, then add all who died before becoming of age through out history. If I recall many children died before coming of age before modern times.(1800) Like 30 to 60% depending where and to whom they were born.
In fact, in some nations still to this day many children die at the same rate, sometimes more with droughts and starvation.
Surely we are up to a few hundred million by now just in children alone, if not triple that amount.
Of all religions, Christianity seems to be the most numerous currently. The current world population is somewhere between 7 and 8 billion now.
Even Job said he would see his Redeemer in his very own flesh. And of that faith, God said that was counted as righteousness.
The New Jerusalem is 1400 miles in width, length and height, surely that is large enough. Rev. 21:16-17
I am sure others here can add more to this. Don't we have a Great and Mighty LORD, Thank you in the name of Jesus, even so.
Awesome, Thank you.
This was the way i was taught long ago by Godly pastors- Since looking into the issue, i believe that anyone who honestly seeks to fill the hole they have inside without the savior will find Christ if they don’t harden their heart against the Holy spirit. Christ promises that anyone who Seeks Him will find Him- Even if they don’t know his ‘proper name’ or anything about Him. Christ will not lead the honest seeker astray.Man knows in their heart that they are on the ‘wrong side’ and need help making their fallen condition right. This is the work of the Holy Spirit- convincing hte people of their fallen state. Those that honestly look to correct that, and don’t look to take credit for their ‘own salvation’ via works’, will find it- will Find Christ. Those that know they are helpless to correct their own condition, and are willing to throw themselves on a Redeemer for mercy, will find Christ full of mercy
Most times when I pray, I start with LORD take from me this heart of stone and watch over my tongue.
good words to pray for- thanks- I definitely need help in those areas
If God wants to save people, then in my view, he will give everyone an opportunity to join him after death.
Those who like to seek power and riches through lies and treachery will reject God because they will refuse to live under his rules. The will be sent to hell, separation from God, which could be very similar to this earth. There, they will continue to scheme and plot for power over everyone else. Nancy Pelosi and her ilk will reject God in death as they have in life in the belief that they can rise to power in the afterlife.
Those who hate scheming and plotting and lies will accept God and his ordered life and will be finally free of people like those we see on earth, at the cost of God’s light yoke. Love your neighbor and your God.
Right now, we need to do evangelizing with kids on college campuses and public school.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:20-23)
To reject the light or conscience and pervert revelation is in essence to reject Jesus Christ, "the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." (John 1:9) But if such obey the light they have then more will be given more, which, insofar as they continue with a sincere Truth-seeking heart, will lead them to the True Light, Jesus Christ, according to the principle:
, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. (Mark 4:24)
Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. (John 12:35)
There was a certain man in Cæsarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: (Acts 10:1-5) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. (Acts 11:14)
While everyone experiences positive and negative effects resulting from the choices of others, yet the lost are not punished for what they did not know, nor for what they could not do, insofar as their ignorance or inability was not their fault (i.e. they are not condemned due to the sin of Adam and having an Adamic nature) but will be sentenced according to what the did know and could do relative to the Light and grace that they were given. And the non-elect are given varying degrees of grace to they can respond to and will be judged accordingly:
And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. (Genesis 4:6-7)
...Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous. (1 John 3:12)
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Romans 1:21)
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16)
...it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. (2 Corinthians 8:12)
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:13-15)
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: (Matthew 11:20)...That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. (Matthew 11:24)
...For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:48)
Thus the word "But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things" (Romans 2:2) for in context both the Gentiles and Jews were condemned because they both has sinned against the light they had, and thus both were in need of redemption.
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (Romans 3:9)
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law [which supremely represents all systems of salvation on the basis of actual merit/moral worthiness: cf. Galatians 3:21]. (Romans 3:19-28)
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)
Thus one must come to Christ for salvation, but the lost are judged relative the light and grace they were given and sinned against, as are believers in the judgment seat of Christ at His reurn, yet not unto eternal damnation/punishment as with the former, but (in the negative) the grievous fearful displeasure of Christ and loss of rewards because of corrupt means of building His church - which we are all doing, even if indirectly - and (in the positive, and I think for most it will be both) that of receiving rewards for works done by the Spirit and thus survive the trial of fire - to the glory of God.
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (Revelation 11:17-18)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:8-10)
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:8-17)
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. (Revelation 14:13)
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