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To: JoSixChip
Glad I’m not one, it would be hard explaining to others how something is a sin one day but blessed the next.

the Pope can not change basic doctrine. He knows it. Catholics know it. comments about civil unions or couching things in post-modern terminology seem intended to hide or misdirect. Its why his office has been one of confusion and demoralization.

Besides, its certainly not an issue Protestants have escaped. I point to the Episcopal Church as exhibit 1A.

18 posted on 10/21/2020 2:15:04 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: PGR88

Not trying to Catholic bash, but I have to point out the obvious. If you are an Episcopalian and you think your church is going off the rails, you can move down the street and go to the Presbyterian Church, or Baptist, or a local church that is not part of one of the main line denominations and still call yourself a protestant. You don’t really have that option as a Catholic, do you? You’d no longer be Catholic.


50 posted on 10/21/2020 3:30:49 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: PGR88; JoSixChip
the Pope can not change basic doctrine. He knows it. Catholics know it. comments about civil unions or couching things in post-modern terminology seem intended to hide or misdirect. Its why his office has been one of confusion and demoralization.

Umm...how do you think "basic doctrine" got set in the first place? Catholics believe their Pope is Christ's representative on earth and they contend he can declare what is or is not truth through his official infallible ex cathedra pronouncements. That's how you came to hold that Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin and assumed bodily into heaven despite there being no Biblical basis for the beliefs. Popes made them part of de fide (of the faith) and binding upon all Catholics. Pope Francis, because he is the Pope, could do the same.

Besides, its certainly not an issue Protestants have escaped. I point to the Episcopal Church as exhibit 1A.

True, but Protestants don't proclaim they have a single bishop who rules all Christendom as the Vicar of Christ. We can leave any local church or denomination in favor of those which teach the Biblical Christian faith. Roman Catholics are in a catch-22.

68 posted on 10/21/2020 4:47:37 PM PDT by boatbums (Lord, make my life a testimony to the value of knowing you.)
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To: PGR88; JoSixChip; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; ...
the Pope can not change basic doctrine.

Which means you cannot depose a validly elected pope, without his consent. Meanwhile, the RCC can indeed change basic doctrine under the premise of clarifying it, and thus resulting in the divisions because of V2. As one poster using some hyperbole stated,

The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)

In addition, required assent is not restricted to only "infallibly" defined teaching, but papal teaching broadly requires that 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)

76 posted on 10/21/2020 6:27:15 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: PGR88
Besides, its certainly not an issue Protestants have escaped. I point to the Episcopal Church as exhibit 1A.

Indeed, and the most liberal Prots tend to be those closest to Catholicism. Thank God I am not a Catholic or a Protestant.

78 posted on 10/21/2020 6:29:23 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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