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To: pastorbillrandles; All
Why Have Torah observant Jews,(among others), been sent into Exile for 2000 years and then recently brought back into the land, in unbelief as Ezekiel 36 says? You still haven’t addressed the question that the article has raised?

This is what they call "presuppositionalism," isn't it? Since there is no proof of the truth of chrstianity one is simply required to "presuppose" it . . . right?

You haven't addressed my points either. You are still assuming the truth of chrstianity from the outset. If you were to read the book of Deuteronomy you would see the prediction of the second exile in Parashat Ki Tavo' (Deuteronomy 26:1-29:8). If you were to actually read it without presupposing the truth of chrstianity you would see exactly why the second exile happened. Over and over and over and over the text says that the punishment is for turning away from the Torah. And you are claiming it is punishment for not turning away from the Torah! Some nerve.

It is really dishonest the way chrstian apologists quote this chapter to "prove" that the Jews were exiled because they didn't "accept the messiah" (there isn't even a commandment among all the 613 to "accept the messiah," since it won't be a matter of doubt). To twist this portion into warning against "rejecting the messiah" is the ultimate in dishonesty.

You also continue to ignore Deuteronomy 13, which plainly states that if anyone tries to tempt a Jew to abandon the Torah, even making prophecies that are fulfilled or even working miracles to "prove" it, one is to ignore them completely because G-d is testing the Jew to see if he truly loves HaShem. It's right there in black and white. But chrstians devoutly ignore this passage because it clashes with their presuppositions.

Here is the main point which you cannot refute: the Torah does not command anyone to believe in J*sus, and the Torah is the supreme revelation. It was not written under Divine inspiration but actually written by G-d Himself while Moses served merely as a stenographer. The Torah sits in judgment on all other claims of Divine revelation and is judged by none. Acceptance of the Torah isn't based on faith or "presuppositionalism" but on the fact that the Revelation at Sinai is self-vindicating. If such a claim could be made without it being true there would be similar claims throughout human history but there are none. Ergo, the Revelation at Sinai is the only claim of Divine Revelation in human history based on absolute certitude rather than on faith. The "new testament" doesn't interpret it. It judges the "new testament."

As a matter of fact, what you refuse to understand is that the Prophets and Writings (the rest of the Hebrew Bible) are not higher, but lower than the Torah. By definition any interpretation of anything in the Hebrew Bible that supposedly predicts the supersession of of Torah by something else is ipso facto false. The Torah interprets Isaiah, not vice versa. But since you simply cannot believe otherwise than that chrstianity must be true, you refuse to see this.

Another factor is the theological corner you paint yourself into via your Calvinism (and I actually respect John Calvin). You are absolutely convinced that G-d cannot simply forgive a sin. If He were to simply forgive any sin He would "topple from His throne of Holiness." Every sin must be punished, and sin ultimately consists of being less perfect that G-d. But by definition, everything is and always will be less perfect than G-d. G-d did not reproduce Himself when He created, which debunks the claim that G-d must damn and punish everything that isn't as perfect as He is.

For you, every sin must be punished even if the sinner is forgiven. This is done by separating the sin from the sinner, placing it on a divine scapegoat, and then subjecting said scapegoat to a vicarious eternal damnation. Thus the sinner is forgiven, but the sin is punished, so that G-d can actually forgive a sinner without "toppling from His Throne of Holiness." You do not consider the alternative as even theoretically possible because you see yourself as doomed to hell unless someone else goes there in your place. Question: what justice is served if the sinner is forgiven but the sin is "punished???"

I once thought just as you do. And please understand that I do not have a happy, optimistic view of human nature. My view of the condition of my own soul is very much like Martin Luther's. But the fact remains that until Luther and Calvin no one taught what you are teaching. Fifteen hundred years of chrstianity scream bloody murder if a Protestant doubts the power of chrstian ritual and commandment to earn salvation for the sinner. This being the case, even if I do have a very "Lutheran" soul, a false religion is not the answer. If Protestantism's assumptions are not true (and historically they are not), then the only valid option, even for someone who feels like sin incarnated, is the Seven Laws of Noah (or Torah if one is Jewish). Certainly one cannot adjudge oneself so sinful that one must make up a new religion to take this sinfulness into account. G-d's solution is always true.

You have spent I don't know how long attacking Noachism. You ignore the fact that Noachides not only don't observe Torah but are actually forbidden to. Like low church Protestants, we don't have a specific worship service or ritual to perform because this belongs exclusively to the Jews. And most important of all, Noachides do not utilize a system of commandments and then merely throw J*sus on top as historical chrstianity does. It seems to me that your number one enemy is historical liturgical chrstianity, not Judaism or Noachism.

And one final point: while all the ancient churches are now liberal as all get-out and have bought into both evolution but also radical nineteenth century Biblical criticism. This came from liberal Protestantism. They also are members of the National and World Councils of Churches where they constantly rib elbows with their good pals the lesbian bishops of liberal Protestant churches. But if someone doubts evolution or insists that the Written Word of G-d must be totally inerrant, he is accused of being under "Protestant influence!" Can you think of anything more hypocritical? They reject their own ancient teachings and accept radical liberal Protestant Biblical criticism to "prove" they aren't "rednecks!" This is from nothing but contempt. (And traditional Orthodox Jews reject Biblical criticism and most reject evolution, btw.) Why you insist on attacking Noachism in the face of all this is beyond me. I realize you must attack it as false based on your beliefs, but it deserves nothing like the attention you are giving it.

I realize I'm wasting my time on you, but I pray that it be His Will that this will help someone who is searching for the truth.

52 posted on 10/18/2020 8:29:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Modernism began two thousand years ago.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Yasser koach, ZC.


63 posted on 10/18/2020 12:38:28 PM PDT by Phinneous (By the way, there are Seven Laws for you too! Noahide.org)
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