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To: kosciusko51

Calvin contradicts James who said “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Obedient works in doing God’s will is what justifies. This means a NT faith includes obedience and is dead apart from obedience.

Calvin: “ It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: “

A very contradicting, illogical statement. Something as faith cannot be both “alone” and “not alone” at the same time.

Luther nor Calvin could ever show one example where a disobedient person who was rebellious to doing God’s will was unconditionally justified by God anyway.

One must FIRST meet the condition by being obedient THEN one receives the free gift.


So “faith without works is dead”. Obedience is what gives life to faith, without those works ‘faith alone’ remains dead, useless.

“Faith” justifies Rom 5:1
“Faith alone” does not justify James 2:24

This means “faith” and “faith alone” cannot be same thing. “Faith” includes obedient works while “faith alone” is void of obedient works.


18 posted on 10/09/2020 11:14:18 AM PDT by Oneanddone
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To: Oneanddone
Calvin: “ It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: “

A very contradicting, illogical statement. Something as faith cannot be both “alone” and “not alone” at the same time.

In your recap, you have changed what Calvin said. Faith alone justifies, but it also does more that justify; it spurs the faithful to good works. The good works come out of faith.

19 posted on 10/09/2020 11:25:47 AM PDT by kosciusko51
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To: Oneanddone; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; MamaB; ...
Calvin: “ It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: “ A very contradicting, illogical statement. Something as faith cannot be both “alone” and “not alone” at the same time.

That is not illogical at all, except to one who is ignorant of the issue. Faith alone, not works, is what appropriates justification, but such faith itself is not alone, as faith is what effects obedience to the object of said faith. Everything we choose to do is a result of what we truly believe, at least at the moment, and thus one who believes on the risen Lord Jesus is one who obeys Him.

Luther nor Calvin could ever show one example where a disobedient person who was rebellious to doing God’s will was unconditionally justified by God anyway.

And if you were better acquainted with the issue you should know that this is not what sola fide means. Luther himself taught,

faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace. - http://peacebyjesus.net/Reformation_faith_works.html

25 posted on 10/09/2020 6:14:28 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Oneanddone
One must FIRST meet the condition by being obedient THEN one receives the free gift.

That is just what salvation under the Law required, and is just what the New Covenant is contrary to. In which the sinner must realize he nothing to offer God by which he could escape his just punishment in Hell-fire or actually merit salvation, and instead the redeemed have come to God as souls as sinners knowing their desperate need of salvation, and not as souls saved by their works or church affiliation, but as destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just judgment and gain eternal life.

And who with contrite hearts place all their faith in the Divine Christ as the Lord and Savior, who died for our sins and is risen to reign in glory, (1 Peter 2:24; 328,22) and who declare this living faith in baptism and following their Lord with humble hearts, (Acts 8:36,37; 10:43–47; 15:7–9) and repent when convicted in heart of not doing so. (Psalm 34:218) Thanks be to God.

Rather than one meeting the condition for justification by being obedient enough (perfection) and then one receiving the free gift, regenerating heart-purifying penitent faith (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9) is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:5) appropriating justification, (Rm. 5:1) and renders one accepted in the Beloved (on His account) and positionally seated together with their Lord in Heaven, (Ephesians 1:6; 2:6) from where they await the Lord's return and His final subduing of our "vile body," that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body," (Philippians 3:21)and which is the only transformative change after this life that the Scriptures speak of.

However, this saving justifying faith, is a faith which effects obedience by the Spirit, in word and in deed, in heart and in life, whereby "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit," (Romans 8:4) insofar as we do. And since faith and works go together like light and heat, sometimes they are used interchangeably as to what they effect. And which obedience includes penitent confession when convicted of not pleasing the Object of his faith for salvation, the risen Lord Jesus.

34 posted on 10/09/2020 7:40:51 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Oneanddone; daniel1212

I see a number of people who believe that one must be saved by doing a “work of God”. What does it mean to be doing a “work of God”?


68 posted on 10/10/2020 6:51:28 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Oneanddone
One must FIRST meet the condition by being obedient THEN one receives the free gift...This means “faith” and “faith alone” cannot be same thing. “Faith” includes obedient works while “faith alone” is void of obedient works.

Actually, as in life, obedience is an effect or, a result of, what one believes. And while lust in the heart means one is a sinner even before he acts it out, so faith in the heart means one is a believer, and in both cases expression confirms what is in the heart. And thus even a mute full paralytic can be saved without expression, if such has the heart that wants to and would express that faith in obedience by the Spirit.

121 posted on 10/11/2020 1:44:53 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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