Posted on 10/09/2020 6:01:41 AM PDT by Teleios Research
The common denominator under both the OT law and NT law in order to be justified is obedience to God’s will.
I am still waiting for someone to show me just one example (OT or NT) of a disobedient person who refused to obey God’s will yet justified anyway. (It cannot be shown for such a person has never existed).
You claim the OT required obedience before one was justified but the NT does not, then:
1) you are admitting obedience under the OT did not earn God’s free gift of grace/mercy. Then there is every reason to think obedience under the NT would not earn God’s free gift either.
2) you claim the new covenant does not teach obedience before receiving God’s free gift yet did not cite one example from the NT of a disobedient person who has not obeyed God’s will yet justified anyway while remaining rebellious to obeying God’s will.
3) many verses in the NT put obedience BEFORE salvation, that is put belief before salvation Jn 8:24 repentance before salvation Lk 13:3 confession before salvation Matt 10:32-33 baptism before salvation Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38. Belief, repentance confession and baptism are all forms of obedience to God’s will and must occur BEFORE one can be saved.
Rom 5:1 says .....faith justifies
James 2:24 says...works justify
Since the NT teaches just one way to be saved, justified then logically faith must be a work, faith MUST include the work of obedience in repentance confession and baptism else that faith is dead and cannot save. Again, show me one example of a person under the NT covenant who had a faith void of works, that is, had a faith void of repentance of sins, void of confessing Jesus Christ, void of being baptized for remission of sins yet unconditionally saved anyway.
There were Christians in Galatia that had fallen from grace, Gal 5:4 because they had quit OBEYING the truth of Christ’s NT Gal 3:1; Gal 5:7. It was their obedience to Christ and His NT that got them in God’s grace and it was their lack of obedience to it as to why they fell from grace.
“Nobody works to earn a gift.” - metmom
2 Kings 5, Naaman had leprosy and God offered him the free gift of healing by simply dipping in the Jordan river 7 times, 2 Kings 5:10. God did not owe Naaman this healing it therefore was a matter of God’s grace. But Naaman could not receive this free gift until he first met the condition God put on the gift in obeying by dipping 7 times in the Jordan river. If Naaman’s work in obeying by dipping earned him his healing then it was not of grace. Yet his obedience earned nothing but was simply meeting a condition GOD put upon His free gift.
Again, not a single case anywhere in the Bible where it is ever said one’s obedience to God earned them God’s free gift. Yet that obedience was necessary in receiving the free gift.
I have relatives, who never even had one anniversary death mass. I wonder where they are? I have also heard, that a few people, on their death bed, finally realize, they are only moments away from an eternity in Hell, and they are terrified by it. I have heard some of them, will say they feel their feet are on fire. It’s weird.
Good question bro. It must be a real bummer, to be lying on their death bed, not having the slightest idea, if they are going to Heaven or Hell. Maybe some of them, will say they already feel like they are on fire, on their death beds.
I have a feeling, that most people, who reach their death bed, not knowing where they will spend eternity, most likely, will end up in the flames 🔥 of Hell. Not a pretty picture. 🤗
In Jn 6:27 Jesus clearly said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life that the Son of man shall GIVE you.
—Jesus settles the issue in saying one must WORK for everlasting life. Not just any kind of work but an obedient work in doing His will. In this text belief is said to be a work, a work given to those people to do. As you point out the people asked “what must DO”. Jesus did not tell them do nothing else you attempt to earn everlasting life but instead Jesus gave them a work to do, the work of believing. Belief is not just a mental assent of the mind but is an action, it is what one does.
Secondly the verse says Jesus “GIVES” everlasting life, it is a gift Jesus freely GIVES. Since Jesus freely gives everlasting life then why in the world did He say to WORK for it??? Because the gift of everlasting life is ==CONDITIONAL== therefore one must work to meet the conditions Christ has put upon this free gift and in this context belief is a condition one must work in order to receive this free gift Christ gives.
From other verses we find repentance Lk 13:3, confession Mt 10:23-33 and baptism Mk 16:16 are also conditions Christ has places upon His free gift. This is why the unbeliever will not receive Christ’s free gift of everlasting life. The impenitent will not receive the free gift of everlasting life. Those that refuse to confess Christ or be baptized will not receive this free gift that Christ gives.
I think everyone agrees Christ saves. The issue is who does Christ save and why? Why is one person saved and another person not saved? What is it that separates the saved from the lost?
From the Bible we find in both the OT and NT obedience to God’s will is the line that separates the saved from the lost. Those that do not obey the gospel of Christ will be the ones in flaming fire, 2 Thess 1:8.
I see a number of people who believe that one must be saved by doing a “work of God”. What does it mean to be doing a “work of God”?
Belief, Jn 8:24
repentance Lk 13:3
confession Mt 10:32-33
baptism Mk 16:16
living faithfully to Christ unto death Rev 2:10
The above is all God requires.
If you do the “work of your employer” it means you are doing the work your employer has given you to do. The employer is the genesis of the work that he gives YOU to do. If the employer does all the work for you then why does he need you? God does not do obedient works for man but God gives man obedient works to do.
So it means to obey what God has told man to do in believing Jn 8:24 repenting of sins Lk 13:3 confessing Christ Mt 10:32-33 and being baptized Mk 16:16.
1 Cor 16:10 Timothy (and Paul) is said to have “worketh the work of the Lord”. It mean he was obedient in doing the work the Lord gave him to do.
That’s a lot of words.
Still saved by grace alone.
Obedience is the effect of salvation, not the cause.
Exactly. Faith and obedience are both necessary for salvation. But faith must come first. Obedience to that faith is evidence of one’s faith and a natural result of true faith. But one cannot say they have faith if they are not obedient.
Wow. Crazy.
Yes, He did.
He said it to those who were trusting in their works.
Which does not invalidate the security of the believer and the assurance we can have as such.
Looks like we found the latest Catholic talking point.
A few weeks ago I had a grand time contending with a Catholic who unashamedly insisted that the Apostle Paul is a heretic.
You are hair splitting.
Obedience is not necessary for receiving that gift. That is earning it.
Faith is necessary for receiving the gift then one is enabled to obey and produces works in keeping with repentance.
John Ankerberg says the same thing about lost folks feeling the heat before they die.
My grandfather said the exact same thing. His last words were, “I feel hot”. And that was followed by a terrifying look in his eyes as if he could see something nobody else could.
Hell is no joke and there is no chance of escape.
ONE MINUTE AFTER YOU DIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBBQ0Ysr1c&list=PL_JCZFWXAPf1aQByfgxwxv40_7UnPDAOA
Man I forgot to pray yesterday and give $10 to some charity.
Guess I’m going to hell now...
No, Larry, we are not kept by works. Who saved you? Why would you have such arrogance to believe that therefore you are able to handle a thing so spiritually miraculous as putting Eternal Life into your dead spirit? The redeemed remain redeemed because God abides in the born again spirit, not because the flesh takes charge of the miraculous. See what John says in 1 John 3:9.
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