[JAG 5000]

“No where in scripture is “free will” mentioned nor is the term used unless you point to one occurrence of a “free will offering” in Leviticus. There is man’s will and there is God’s will. There isn’t a “free will”. Man’s will is at strife with God’s will. If one thinks otherwise then, if they are truly a Christian and truly have a “free will”, it should be a simple matter of living a sinless life because one can choose to do good. Our sinfulness illustrates that our will are constantly battling God’s will.
On the other hand, election, predestined, chosen are all over the scriptures. I would suggest you will not be able to understand the Gospel of John or Romans without understanding these doctrine. At least I never could.

Do you think Paul had a choice? It certainly wasn’t his “free will” that pushed him over on the Damascus Road. Paul states that God choose him from his mother’s womb:

Gal 1:15-16 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,

Same is true about Jeremiah where God states:

“Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jer 1:4-5

Doesn’t sound like Jeremiah had a free choice in the matter. I could go on and on. But the greatest evidence is within each of us. And, give what you have written, it shows up in your testimony as well when you stated: No if you mean did I originate my salvation process totally apart from God.. If you didn’t originate your salvation then God must have. Just like this testimony, I have NEVER heard a personal testimony yet that didn’t say...”I was going this way BUT God...” It is this one simple phrase in our testimony that illustrates the proof that we are chosen by God. God opened our eyes and ears to see and hear the gospel call. Just like Paul on the Damascus Road.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,:___HarleyD

___________

HarleyD,

* Thank you for a well written post.

* You put some thought and some time into writing that up.

* This debate has been going on for some
2000 years and is nowhere near being settled.

* We can both make our points.

* Perhaps our points will be a blessing to some human being somewhere. I hope so.

* Here is a point for you: Joshua told the
people “choose you this day whom you will serve.”
That’s Free Will

* John 3:16 presents all people with a Free Will choice:
{1} Choose to perish
or
{2} Choose Eternal Life
Again Free Will.

* “Behold I satand at the door and knock”___The Lord Jesus
This again is Free Will.
This presents you with a choice:
{1} Choose to open the door
or
{2} Choose to refuse to open the door.
Free Will.

* Not gonna ever be able to escape from Free Will.

Best To You HarleyD.

JAG

[HarleyD]

* Here is a point for you: Joshua told the people “choose you this day whom you will serve.” That’s Free Will

If one was to give an altar call at church, they certainly wouldn't say, "Will all the elect come forward." Same with Joshua. He knew the people of Israel would fall away. It was predicted back in Deutoronomy 31 with Moses instructions to Joshua.
14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting. 15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent. 16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’ 18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Joshua was simply telling the people who he was going to serve. Joshua's heart was changed. So, in fairness were many of the Israelites that crossed over the Jordan. But it wasn't their doing. God told the rebellious Israelites that they would die in the wilderness and He would bring their children into the Promise Land.
Numbers 14:30 Surely you shall not come into the land in which I swore to settle you, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 Your children, however, whom you said would become a prey—I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected.

The children God brought in. They didn't have a choice.

John 3:16 presents all people with a Free Will choice: {1} Choose to perish or {2} Choose Eternal Life Again Free Will.

As far as John 3:16, this is often one of the most abused passages in scripture for people fail to read the entire text.
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

From the entire text God loves the world but man will not come to Him because it will expose his sinfulness. Just like Adam hiding in the garden after he transgressed God's command. Keep these two things in mind, 1) God really, really loves us and wants to walk among us, and 2) men really hate God and want nothing to do with Him because He will show just how corrupt we are. That is the nature of God and man, and is what John 3:16-21 tells us. We like to think of the first while ignoring the second simply because we don't want to admit our sinfulness. In order for God to be partakers of our lives, God has to cleanse us and change our hearts to desire to have fellowship with Him. That is how wonderful this truth is.

A companion to John 3:16-21 is Ephesians 2:

2 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

* “Behold I satand at the door and knock”___The Lord Jesus This again is Free Will. This presents you with a choice: {1} Choose to open the door or {2} Choose to refuse to open the door. Free Will.

One can make a choice. And people do every day. But it isn't a "free" choice. Satan has bound our hearts. People (as shown in John 3) are not going to open the door unless God does it because we love to sin. But just as Noah preached for 120 years all the while building an ark that would only hold 8 people, God constantly calls people knowing that most people will not come.

If one don't believe me, just stand out on a street corner and tell people they need to repent and come to Christ to be saved. See how many will make a "free choice". Stats says they have a 50/50 chance of selecting the right path. I seriously doubt one will convert that many people.