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To: Petrosius
>>Yes...he speaks of those who've died in "mortal sin". Roman Catholic theology says if you die in mortal sin you've lost Heaven. This would be a huge change in RC theology.<<

Saint Thomas speaks of those" who have died in mortal sin the Divine Mother has obtained from God a suspension of their sentence, and return to life to do penance." Thus their death was not final. Do I really need to speak of Lazarus? Is not God free to do this? This requires no change in theology.

Whoa....that is a HUGE change in RC theology and a complete rejection of what is taught in the NT.

It is appointed once for man to die and then comes the judgment.

Now, the apparition that some Roman Catholics trust in claimed to "save those who wear the scapular from the fires of hell; She will also shorten their stay in purgatory if they should pass from this world still owing some debt of punishment."

It's two different things. One is the person in Hell due to their "mortal sins"...the other is marking time in purgatory.

The apparition is claiming those who wear a man-made idol will be sprung from both. Hence why I say that's a HUGE change in RC theology...aside from a complete rejection of the NT.

I'm beginning to see why some Roman Catholics cling to that idol called the Brown Scapular. They are so scared to death of Hell they think they will get a "second chance" if they die in a "mortal sin".

Those who do wear the Brown Scapular are not trusting in Christ for their salvation.

*****

>> The Bible makes no distinction that Mary can 1) hear our prayers, 2) that her prayers are any better than anyone elses.<<

Except that Mary is Jesus' mother, not just some faceless, nameless character in the Bible. .

Again your position denies the NT.

Believers have been given the Holy Spirit to guide them and to intercede for them (Romans 8:26-27). Your position means Mary has to be able to hear, understand, interpret and convey the prayers of every Roman catholic who prays to her....all 1.3 billion...perfectly and without fail. This puts her on the same position as the Holy Spirit.

There's no other way to say that. And that, my friend, is complete falsehood and another rejection of the New Testament.

Jesus would naturally have a greater regard for her, as would any loving son. To deny this would be to deny his humanity.

Did He love His mom AND dad here on earth? No doubt. To use your logic here, the prayers of Joseph would be of equal value as he was the man who reared Jesus, taught Him a trade, etc.

But again, this would negate the NT teaching that ALL believers have access to the throne of grace. God values all of our prayers...each and every one (1 John 5:13-15).

It also shows a legalistic approach to the Bible that anything that is not explicitly stated there is not true.

To allow your statement allows the Mormon their Pearl of Great Price. It allows the Muslim the Haddiths and the Koran. It also allows the NT Apocrypha to be sought out for truth.

One of the reasons the early ekklesia put together the canon was to have an agreed upon set of writings all agreed upon. The writings you're citing are not part of the NT canon.

Rome had an opportunity at Trent to put them in the canon but did not.....and for a reason.

90 posted on 02/29/2020 5:02:15 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
It is appointed once for man to die and then comes the judgment.

And yet Jesus did raise the dead to new life. Would you deny this ability to God today? Also, what St. Thomas speaks of is being returned to life before the soul is judged.

Now, the apparition that some Roman Catholics trust in claimed to "save those who wear the scapular from the fires of hell; She will also shorten their stay in purgatory if they should pass from this world still owing some debt of punishment."

It's two different things. One is the person in Hell due to their "mortal sins"...the other is marking time in purgatory.

First, it should be pointed out that while there is nothing about the promises of the brown scapular that are contrary to the faith, this is not Church doctrine. Second, you misunderstand the idea of saving someone from the fires of hell. This is not to be understood as snatching a soul away that is in hell. For these souls there is no relief. Rather it is preventing them for going there in the first place by opening their souls to the grace of God that will lead them to repentance. I would recommend that you should try to understand Catholic teachings and practices as Catholics understand them before you critique them, rather than forcing them into the purely legalistic understanding of Protestantism, seeking only a way to discredit Catholicism.

94 posted on 02/29/2020 8:20:04 AM PST by Petrosius
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