Posted on 02/26/2020 9:10:38 AM PST by RoosterRedux
I am teaching Sunday School this Sunday (filling in for our regular teacher who is on vacation). And I am going to play the following short video (6+ min) and then go to discussion. Would appreciate your comments.
Jesus and Our Creed Are Subversive (Carolyn Moore)
As a follow-up note, this is a United First Methodist Church (GA). I grew up in this church and have returned to it only recently. I fear it has become, for the most part, a do-gooder social club and perhaps Christian in name only.
The people are very nice but the church most certainly isn't on fire. Whenever I mention the Holy Spirit as I did last Sunday, I get blank stares.
The Sunday School class is small group of usually 8 people and 2 of them do their very best to redirect the discussion to banal chit-chat. Though it is most certainly not the fault of our teacher, Sunday School so far is a complete waste of time (not Jesus, nor the Father or HS are ever mentioned...though I try hard to bring discussions back to them).
Near Augusta, I believe. Moore is a leader in the WCA movement to split the UMC,I think. Not sure
Love God. Love they neighbor as they self. Whats so hard?
This material is without a doubt the dullest, most uninspiring stuff I have ever imagined. Nothing in it, not the class readings nor the suggested questions for the teachers, sounds like it comes from believing Christians. Frankly the lessons sound like what you would expect to come from a secular, in-name-only Christian organization which is trying to lead people away from the Gospel.
... Love God. Love they neighbor as they self. Whats so hard?
If you know one person, just one person, who is not screwed up, I want to meet them. I fail at all three aspects of love daily (God/Self/Others) and yet it should be as easy as breathing.
What do you know about the WCA movement? Is it conservative...a return to our roots?
It is simply that you need to remove yourself from the United First Methodist Church and find a good Bible believing Church. By that i mean one that follows the word of God exactly as the Bible says, and not skip parts or change parts to suit ones self. Get a King James Bible and not one of the MANY modern re-translated ones. Stick to ORIGINAL that was and is the word of GOD.
WCA?
... Stick to ORIGINAL that was and is the word of GOD
King James Bible is the original? News to me
About the WCA
Looks like the WCA is conservative and against the ordination of lesbian Bishop Karen Oliveto.
Here is a statement on the Bishop from their site:
Wesleyan Covenant Association Statement On Judicial Council Decision Involving Bishop Karen OlivetoThe decision by the Judicial Council in the matter involving Bishop Karen Oliveto has made some key rulings which provide clarity on important issues facing The United Methodist Church, with respect to our church’s doctrine on human sexuality and the election of our bishops. At the same time, the Council has sought to preserve the fair process rights of all of our clergy including our bishops. We commend the Council for clear statements which will now govern the conduct of our episcopal leaders. The recent decision by the Judicial Council has the practical effect, however, of retaining Karen Oliveto as a bishop of The United Methodist Church for now.
Bishops, while elected regionally, are episcopal leaders of the whole Church. They are avowed to uphold the doctrine and discipline of our global Connection. The authority of a bishop who so flagrantly defies the will of the church as expressed through General Conference will not be respected by a large segment of our denomination, and rightly so.
There can be no unity without a shared commitment throughout our Connection to abide by a common set of doctrines, standards and rules. And there can be no sustainable future for The United Methodist Church, as currently structured, without accountability for all our clergy, including our episcopal leaders. We fear that this decision of the Council will prompt many more individual members and churches to withhold funds or to seek an exit from our denomination. The Council’s ruling adds to the growing list of bodies that have not taken action that they could have taken to restore integrity to our covenant.
We call upon the Western Jurisdiction to accept and implement the decision of the Council, including promptly processing any and all complaints pending or that will be filed against Bishop Oliveto.
We further call upon those who feel they cannot, in good conscience, abide by the doctrines and discipline of our church, to seek an honorable exit from our denomination.
The entire burden is now squarely on the shoulders of the Bishop’s Commission on a Way Forward and our next General Conference.
The Wesleyan Covenant Association calls upon faithful United Methodist churches and members to unite with us and to remain steadfast in the ongoing struggle for the integrity of our Church during this transitional period. We ask all United Methodists to pray for the Bishops’ Commission on a Way Forward; for the proposed special session of General Conference in 2019; and above all, for our beloved United Methodist Church, that God may deliver it from its current crisis, and lead us all into a faithful and fruitful future.
We further invite those who are committed to a high view of Scripture, Wesleyan vitality, orthodox theology and Holy Spirit empowerment to join with us as we continue to contend for the faith entrusted to us by the apostles. We are committed to working for a connection of churches and individuals passionately committed to introducing people to Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord, and helping them become His fully devoted followers; to advancing the Kingdom of God; and to fostering lives transformed by God’s grace and the work of the Holy Spirit. We believe that this mission is enhanced when we work together for our common purposes as the uncertain future of The United Methodist Church comes into clearer focus. We can accomplish far more together than would be accomplished by each church and individual believer going it alone.
Therefore, if your heart is as our heart, we invite you to join us in this journey at this crucial time.
Source: https://wesleyancovenant.org
As I recently heard a theologian say IN JEST "if the KJV was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it is good enough for me.";-)
Jesus as a subversive and rebel is a hard lesson to teach full adults let alone youth.
I have attended many churches that say Jesus loves you, but do not talk at all about His requirements for salvation. Most will skim over many of the parables because He teaches many hard(yet surprisingly simple lessons).
Churches today tell us to love our neighbors especially if the church is involved an a bit of that love. They tell us to love God, yet seldom tell or show the Body how to do that. And never to love ourselves.(that would be selfish)
My Sunday school class(around 6-8 young people aged from 9-14) covers the first, second readings and the Gospel, most times not all three because of the depth of the discussion and time limitations. Youth are VERY smart, and can come up with amazing connections once they learn the basics. They push me to be a better teacher and person every time we meet. They question everything, and may have a better grasp of what Jesus is teaching better than their parents.
Good luck with your daunting task.
The adults in my class act as though they have been hypnotized when it comes to the Gospel...which is why I think this little video might be a splash of cold water to them.
So far, our Sunday School classes are little more than ancient history lessons on nothing of importance to the Gospel. One member always interrupts the class to speak for 10-15 minutes about something he saw on the History Channel about where the Ark of the Covenant might be hidden. He even tried to bring Indiana Jones into the discussion (which might be OK if that brought the discussion back on topic).
... Stick to ORIGINAL that was and is the word of GOD
King James Bible is the original? News to me
That is right.
The Original English translation.
Your disruptors need to be stopped quickly and redirected gently yet firmly. (think of herding cats) You are the instructor.
I had a disruptive student once and asked them to leave. the next week the same thing happened and i escorted them to their parents in church. never had that problem again.
If your disruptors are adults, you have a bigger problem.
Again a firm yet gentle hand redirecting will be needed. You will need to keep to your topic; only allowing for pertinent discussion.
Do what you can do, but remember that you are only a fill-in.
Here is a website that I use to get myself ready for Sundays: http://lessonplansthatwork.org/find-by-sunday/
We are in year A Sorry for sounding so preachy.
It was somewhat foreshadowed by earlier prophetic traditions, but the KJV is the true DIVENELY AUTHORIZED and INFALLIBLE version. Thought you knew.
True, the KJV/AV Elizabethan English language is not the language in which the original manuscripts were presented to humanity by the Holy Spirit through the agency of the holy men whom He employed to inscripturate those words.
But the KJV New Testament is a faithful translation of a Majority/Byzantine Greek Textform from which the Reformation was born through its translation into the common languages, and rapidly spread through Gutenberg's invention.
The merit of the KJV is that it (once one understands Elizabethan language) preserves the meaning of the Greek (and Hebrew) text(s) literally, keeping the human-introduced interpretational error to the minimum.
It also preserves the proper conjugation of verbs in that "thee, thou, thy, thine" always and only refers to a single person; ad "ye, you, your, yours) always and only refers to two or more individuals, thus avoiding one common and divisive error of grammatically misinterpreting and misapplying scripture.
The understanding of the English text is greatly improved by the talents of a person educated to properly conduct exegesis of the underlying original language and expositionally explain the meaning to him/herself and others.
Regarding the plethora of modern (and profitably copyrighted) versions are based on a different text, the one termed "critical" and "eclectic"; a Greek textform(s) synthesized in the 19th century from three corrupted Alexandrian codices. This is a textform that was not seen by human eye until its publication in 1891.
Its popularity in seminaries was advanced by the raving of "scholarly" professors whose expertise served to place them (in the minds of their fellows) more famous.
This synthesized text has been touted by liberal theologians everywhere to supplant the ability possessed by the Holy Spirit to preserve His Original Words. The process of preservation (claimed by certain scholars to be a deleterious one) was achieved through the plurality of faithfully copied texts kept watchfully secure--and agreed upon through the ages--by the churches and their scribes who hand-copied them until moveable type was invented.
If these facts are news to you, you are ill-informed.
I contend that the KJV is still the best English translation upon which one can rely for growth to full maturity in the Life in Christ. It has been so for 400 years, if that means anything to you. It does to me. For one, The NIV is not a good or reliable study Bible.
find a good charles stanley video on youtube, have the kids watch it, then discuss it and how it can apply to their lives- He’s a very very solid Christian with a calm soothing teaching style that many people enjoy- You can tell this man is very close to God if you watch enough of his videos-
urging him to leave that church? Why? IF He’s one of hte only born again positive influences in a church that doesn’t preach God’s word as much as it should, then why would he need to leave?- He and people like him can be huge influences in people’s lives within the church
The Holy spirit listeth where it will- that is a lesson i learned awhile back when I questioned why so and so was part of a church that obviously was not preaching the word of God- (it was a ‘town church’ whatever that means), and they didn’t preach salvation from the pulpit- however, there were a few believers i n the congregation who accepted Christ as Savior, and who were holding bible studies on their own, and were a Godly influence to people inside that church who would never had had an influence like that had those good born again folks not attended that church-
this is what it means when it’s said ‘The Spirit Listeth where He Will’- He influences people where HE wills them to be influenced, for God’s own purposes- It opened my eyes to the fact that God works Anywhere He pleases- Despite my objections
We can be worker for Christ wherever we are- (Of course we do need to guard against being corrupted ourselves- but we shouldn’t shrink from challenges God has put us in either- missionaries go and teach in totally godless places sometimes- and God protects them because their faith is strong, and they wish to be where God places them
Obviously it sounds simple but Jesus said, “You must take up your cross and follow Me.”
He also said that the world would hate you for following Him.
Denying yourself and being humble are at the core of faith in Jesus. This is not easy without the sacraments, especially the Blessed Sacrament.
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