For all intents and purposes, he already is one.
Pope Francis speaking in front of a statue of Martin Luther.
Posted on 01/28/2020 9:44:11 AM PST by ebb tide
Why become Protestant when The Mass of Paul VI alone has done such a fine job of this task in the past 50+ years ?!?!
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Exactly. If you want the peace and holiness and orthodoxy of traditional Roman Catholicism, join the closest Tridentine Latin Mass community. Unfortunately an enormous number of Catholics do not have such a community within a reasonable driving distance. However, I believe that Bishops in all dioceses are supposed to make the Traditional Latin Mass available upon the request of 30 or more parishioners. Whether they will do so is another matter.
Meaning Leo X granted a plenary indulgence , the remission of all temporal punishment for all sins, such as would voluntarily contribute to the building of the church St. Peter (who at one time lived in a house of a tanner by the sea), but with half of the money being for Bishop Albrecht von Mainz, the authorized papal agent for the indulgence granted by the papal Bull Sacrosanctis salvatoris et redemptoris, to repay money loaned him from an Augsburg banker in order to illegally obtain pastoral office. As Jedin affirms , "the whole thing was a full-fledged scandal."
For as the Catholic Encyclopedia (in its entry on Leo X) affirms
...the seeds of discontent amid which Luther threw his firebrand had been germinating for centuries. The immediate cause was bound up with the odious greed for money displayed by the Roman Curia, and shows how far short all efforts at reform had hitherto fallen. Albert of Brandenburg, already Archbishop of Magdeburg, received in addition the Archbishopric of Mainz and the Bishopric of Hallerstadt, but in return was obliged to collect 10,000 ducats, which he was taxed over and above the usual confirmation fees. To indemnify him, and to make it possible to discharge these obligations Rome permitted him to have preached in his territory the plenary indulgence promised all those who contributed to the new St. Peter's; he was allowed to keep one half the returns, a transaction which brought dishonour on all concerned in it.
and constituted the canonical crime of simony.
Wrong again. Consistent with the principles of Catholic theology, receiving a confession certificate by in response to a donation by which one could obtain an indulgence for the remission of all temporal punishment for all sins, but which required penitent confession to any priest at any desired time in his later life, is not the same thing as for simony. For an indulgence requires acts of devotion along with penitent heart, whereas a church office not only requires qualifications beyond that, but simony is a form of barter, that the office being made equal to the value of money, and which the selling of indulgences became reduced to.
The Catholic Encyclopedia states , "jubilees and indulgences were degraded almost entirely into financial transactions."
Yet it is affirmed that "alms deeds" "being prescribed in the granting of an indulgence," and that "among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, alms giving would naturally hold a conspicuous place." (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm) Which did lead to abuses, as were other things, but not that alms giving for an indulgence was itself an abuse in the RC $ystem.
Therefore among the good works encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, "alms giving would naturally hold a conspicuous place" in the time of Tetzel, as long as the condition of confession with a contrite (which is only presumed) heart be adhered to. And thus the CE states that Tetzel's error was preaching "plenary indulgence for the dead on the mere gift of money, without contrition on the part of the giver."
However, since what was actually given in response to a donation was a confession certificate, which required penitent confession to any priest at any desired time in his later life in order to receive the indulgence, then technically it is asserted that Rome never authorized the actual sale of indulgences. Meaning that Rome sold a conditional promise of remission of the temporal punishment due to sin.
For support of just indulgences for the dead then from many old sources as here we have this quote from Leo X, "that the dead and the living who truly obtain these indulgences, are immediately freed from the punishment due to their actual sins according to Divine justice, which allows these indulgences to be granted and obtained. "
Now you are better informed at least.
Please..we evangelical Protestants do not want such as members. Nor does they want us. But liberals find a home in Rome, while Traditionalist RCs who reject teachings of V2 and some modern popes, based upon what they (Traditionalists RCs) judge historical teachings are and mean, are in essence acting like evangelical Protestants
. Except in the latter case it is the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation. and which best shows how the NT church understood the OT and gospels). In which distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest.
Impossible, for distinctive Catholic teachings did not exist that long, for are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, especially Acts thru Revelation. and which best shows how the NT church understood the OT and gospels).
Ya'll gonna give the money back?
It was Ratzinger who wrote rather objectively about Luther, while just what concord would Luther have with Francis on faith and morals? Climate Armageddon: Non-proselytizing; Universal brotherhood and salvation? You may be better off saying Luther was a better Catholic than your pope.
Luther: faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man, changes his spirit... Faith cannot help doing good works constantly... if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit... where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith.. where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both. if obedience and God's commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil's own doings, although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead... if you continue in pride and lewdness, in greed and anger, and yet talk much of faith, St. Paul will come and say, 1 Cor. 4:20, look here my dear Sir, "the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." It requires life and action, and is not brought about by mere talk. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation... faith casts itself on God, and breaks forth and becomes certain through its works... faith must be exercised, worked and polished; be purified by fire... it is impossible for him who believes in Christ, as a just Savior, not to love and to do good. If, however, he does not do good nor love, it is sure that faith is not present... where the works are absent, there is also no Christ... References and more by God's grace. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Reformation_faith_works.html
How about if the pope becomes Protestant? That’d be a lot easier.
Yet another falsehood! "A wholesale rejection of Church teaching," yet that was not the charge against him (and certainly the 95 thesis), and the followers he inspired became foremost defenders of the many many core Truths we both agree on, versus distinctive Catholic teachings that are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed. Some of which Luther himself yet held to.
No, for that would make him a false Protestant like the liberal ones for whom the Bible is not the supreme standard as the only wholly God-inspired and faithful substantive word of God, as understood by the NT church, and thus upholding traditional values.
I think he just described a great number of Roman Catholics here on Free Republic.
Some accept and obey their pope, accept and obey certain dogmas they agree with or reject those they don't.
Others have started a modern day Reformation of a sorts....though they just don't realize it.
No, for that would make him a false Protestant like the liberal ones for whom the Bible is not the supreme standard as the only wholly God-inspired and faithful substantive word of God, as understood by the NT church, and thus upholding traditional values.
I thought of doing exactly what you used to do, but I think the nearest Tridentine Mass is too far to attend regularly. It’s a shame where 2nd Vatican Council has lead the RCC.
A web site popular among "RadTrad" RCs who reject Vatican Two is https://novusordowatch.org attempts to describe up the situation by saying,
In response to the phenomenon of the Vatican II revolution, there are three essential lines of thought that have been proposed as “solutions” to understanding the situation. This is not now the place or time to critique or justify any of them. For now, we want to just describe them:
(1) despite appearances, nothing has really substantially changed, and any interpretation of Vatican II that arrives at the conclusion that there has been a substantial change must be incorrect;
(2) we must oppose (resist) these substantial changes and stick to the traditional, age-old teaching instead and ignore the Vatican II novelties while recognizing, however, that the authorities in the Vatican are legitimate and genuine Roman Catholic authorities — we just cannot agree with them on these points;
(3) because it is impossible for the Catholic Church to change substantially, and because Vatican II constitutes such an impossible substantial change, it is necessary to conclude that the authority which gave us Vatican II is not in fact the legitimate Catholic authority; that is to say, the “Popes” which gave us Vatican II are not true Popes, nor are their successors, who have implemented and expanded this new religion that has its roots in the council.
In fact, the entire religion that now occupies the Vatican and the official structures of the Catholic Church throughout the world is false — it is not the Catholic religion at all, and its putative authorities are not Catholics but heretical usurpers. - https://novusordowatch.org/start-here/
I’m not Catholic; what do Catholics do when they are being “shepherded” by an anti-pope? Do you have any power to join together and try to have him removed, or do you just keep your head down and wait it out?
As you might have heard, Protestants, when faced by top leadership who violate Scripture, often break off from their denominations into two denominations, one with the old conservative values, and the apostate group who refuses to accept Scripture. cf, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists and Episcopalians splits.
They can try to correct him. If he refuses correction, they can ignore him and pray for a truly Catholic pope.
For all intents and purposes, he already is one.
Pope Francis speaking in front of a statue of Martin Luther.
I am fortunate that our parish here in Upper East Tennessee has a Latin Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation.
(Note, Tennesseans: St. Mary’s in Johnson City, 2:00 PM every Sunday).
I’m getting a good belly laugh from the Catholic whingers on this thread.
We told you so, and allow me to rub it in.
You mocked, insulted, and threw virtual feces at Proddies and Evangelicals for years when we told you that it was dangerous for you to be part of a “church” that has literally no recourse to remove corrupt leaders.
Well now you’ve got Frankie, and everything we warned you about is coming to pass.
And what’s better? You can’t leave Pope Frank in the dust without becoming what you hate.
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Naw.
Luther would likely just chuckle and say, “Told you so. Be glad you’re not being burned at the stake like the Pope did in my day.”
Except, you know, in German.
You are always a Catholic, once baptized one. You may be an inactive Catholic right now, but you are still a Catholic.
All it takes to come back is to sit down and talk with a priest and get your questions answered.
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