“You apparently believe a person (Jew or Gentile) can be born again then unborn themselves and be damned. The writer of Hebrews is trying to illustrate why that cannot be done...”
The last first: The writer of Hebrews explicitly says it can and HAD been done. “They were once in God’s light; they tasted heaven’s gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit...And then they abandoned their faith!” He did no pose a hypothetical. He said it HAD happened.
As to the first: Can someone who has been born commit suicide? Yes.
We are often warned against falling away. Why is that?
“19 But you will say, “Yes, but the branches were broken off to make room for me.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because they did not believe, while you remain in place because you do believe. But do not be proud of it; instead, be afraid. 21 God did not spare the Jews, who are like natural branches; do you think he will spare you? 22 Here we see how kind and how severe God is. He is severe toward those who have fallen, but kind to you—if you continue in his kindness. But if you do not, you too will be broken off. 23 And if the Jews abandon their unbelief, they will be put back in the place where they were; for God is able to do that. “ - Romans 11
“Thou standest by faith - The continuance of these mercies to you depends on your fidelity. If you are faithful, they will be preserved; if, like the Jews, you become unbelieving and unfruitful, like them you will be also rejected. This fact should repress boasting, and excite to anxiety and caution.
Be not high-minded - Do not be elated in the conception of your privileges, so as to produce vain self-confidence and boasting.
But fear - This fear stands opposed to the spirit of boasting and self-confidence, against which he was exhorting them. It does not mean terror or horror, but it denotes humility, watchfulness, and solicitude to abide in the faith. Do not be haughty and high-minded against the Jew, who has been cast off, but “demean yourself as a humble believer, and one who has need to be continually on his guard, and to fear lest he may fall through unbelief, and be cast off.” (Stuart.) We may here learn,
(1)That there is danger lest those who are raised to eminent privileges should become unduly exalted in their own estimation, and despise others.
(2)the tendency of faith is to promote humility and a sense of our dependence on God.
(3)the system of salvation by faith produces that solicitude, and careful guarding, and watchfulness, which is necessary to preserve us from apostasy and ruin.”
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/romans-11.html
“Verse 20
This is true. This means: “There is some truth in this line of reasoning.” But these branches were not just broken off to make room for the Gentiles. Because they did not believe. What Paul is saying here, helps to explain what he said in Romans 9:14-18. It was their own unbelief which caused them to be broken off. Because you believe. It is faith which joins the Gentile to the tree. Instead, be afraid. This is contrasted with “being proud of yourself.” A religion based on faith (Romans 3:27) does not permit boasting and being proud. See also Ephesians 2:8-10. Unbelief would also break them off!
Verse 21
God did not spare the Jews. If God broke off the natural branches because of their disbelief, he will break off the Gentile branches who cease to believe.”
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ice/romans-11.html
Consider the Jews. They were “God’s Chosen People”. The Elect. Collectively. Corporate election. But even in the Old Testament, it was faith that truly made individuals whole. Abraham BELIEVED. God will restore the Jews, at the end, some. But if he cast aside the natural branches who didn’t believe, what will he do to grafted on branches that turn aside?
“They were broken off because they did not believe, while you remain in place because you do believe. But do not be proud of it; instead, be afraid. God did not spare the Jews, who are like natural branches; do you think he will spare you?”
I see no room for debate. You can write as much as you want about your theories, but all must be judged by the word of God. And God’s word is plainly spoken. A teen can read it and understand.
How do I define eternal life? It is life with God, unending. But eternal life isn’t granted to everyone, but to everyone who BELIEVES. And if they stop believing? Won’t be a problem in heaven, but here on earth it is. Because we are warned to persist in believing. And told if we stop believing, we will be cut off. Jesus is the vine. We are the branches. Connected to the vine, we have everything. Apart from the vine, nothing. And “[God] is severe toward those who have fallen, but kind to you—if you continue in his kindness. But if you do not, you too will be broken off.”
“The Spirit says clearly that some people will abandon the faith in later times; they will obey lying spirits and follow the teachings of demons.” - 1 Tim 4
“5 “I am the vine, and you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will bear much fruit; for you can do nothing without me. 6 Those who do not remain in me are thrown out like a branch and dry up; such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, where they are burned.” - John 15
“Be on your guard, then, so that you will not be led away by the errors of lawless people and fall from your safe position. 18 But continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” - 2 Peter 3
“My friends, be careful that none of you have a heart so evil and unbelieving that you will turn away from the living God. 13 Instead, in order that none of you be deceived by sin and become stubborn, you must help one another every day, as long as the word “Today” in the scripture applies to us. 14 For we are all partners with Christ if we hold firmly to the end the confidence we had at the beginning.” - Hebrews 3 - “if we hold firmly to the end”!
“9 “Then you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and be put to death. Everyone will hate you because of me. 10 Many will give up their faith at that time; they will betray one another and hate one another... 13 But whoever holds out to the end will be saved.” - Matt 24
“If people have escaped from the corrupting forces of the world through their knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and then are again caught and conquered by them, such people are in worse condition at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been much better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than to know it and then turn away from the sacred command that was given them. 22 What happened to them shows that the proverbs are true: “A dog goes back to what it has vomited” and “A pig that has been washed goes back to roll in the mud.” - 2 Peter 2
There are three rules to hermeneutics: context context context.
The proper context considers by whom a passage is uttered, to whom a passage is directed, in what time frame it is applied, and to what purpose God's Spirit applies that passage.
You have adeptly strung together passages to support your necessity to keep that which ONLY God has access to. That is works based salvation by a more devious path. I reject that teaching.
That, fella, is a totally false translation an interpretration. The writer said "IF they shall fall away," not that anyone HAD fallen away.
Your comment, as it is seen in the face of being shown otherwise in this thread, is apparently deliberate in making conclusions that are NOT present in scripture and therefore misleading.
It sems that you don't realize or won't admit that the selected verses (Heb. 6:4-6)apply to those Hebrews who had been born under the law.
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."More specifically, they apply to the twelve chosen disciples that (1) walked with and were taught by Jesus, God in the flesh upon Whom the Holy Ghost rested. He not only was the Word Personified, but (2) He proclaimed the Word to them and others. These disciples, including Judas, (3) both saw and personally exercised the powers of Christ. They, like Saul or David, (4) were partakers of the Holy Ghost ON them temporarily (but not WITHIN them permanently until Pentecost).
They were of the generation that bridged the time The Old Covenant was fulfilled and put away forever, and the time the New Covenant was afterwards introduced to them. That is one peculiar generation, no longer to be repeated.
Judas Iscariot's faith in and allegiance to Jesus failed, and though he regretted his betrayal, could not repent from it. Like the Saul of old, the Holy Spirit rested on him for a while, but then was taken away and replaced by the Devil entering and possessing him when his faith failed.
On the other hand, Simon bar Jonah's faith almost completely failed, but Jesus had prayed for it not to fail, and so it didn't, though he denied association with Jesus six times. We see that at the moment he was still following Jesus to see what happened, when the denials occurred. Then Jesus looked back up the hall at him while waiting for admittance to Caiaphas's quarters, and caught red-handed, Peter wept, and that bitterly.
But he continued in staying with the other ten, until the day of Pentecost. On that day, Simon was reborn in the Spirit, and never showed failure of his commitment after that. It was Jesus faithfully sustained Simon, both before Pentecost and after.
The verses you are quoting only applied to the Hebrews of the time that it was written for.
Yet today, there exist seekers whose enthusiasm has been stirred up enough to have professed a belief in Jesus, but who have not totally committed themselves to Him, and hence are not truly saved. But it is a case where only God can judge, although spiritually mature fellow-members of the assembly might have an inkling of a person's lack of full commitment, even though the person has gotten baptized and is participating in the assembly ministry.
However, that person could still be convicted of his/her total depravity and unworthiness, but then sorrowfully repent, acknowledge to God and others his worthlessness, and receive from God alone by unreserved faith alone, the gift of salvation and new birth. Hebrews 6:4-6 does NOT apply to that person. However, Hebrews 3:12-19 does apply to that person of questionable behavior, but not to the ones who have already been born again even though they are not yet very mature spiritually.
Does the last paragraph of your Post #382 apply to yourself? If so, you need to read this very carefully, and please stop making claims that are not truthful.
Which translation is this?