Jesus is the Life Preserver. Mary is the Rope He Chose To Reel Us In.

The Most Ancient Tradition | 06-16-2019 | Charles O'Connell

[CharlesOConnell]

In Captains Courageous, with Spencer Tracey, Freddy Batholomew is a blowhard millionaire's son who is socially, poorly adjusted. He uses his father's incredible wealth, to bully his classmates and even his teacher, but he's roundly disliked, and ostracized. While on an ocean liner, he unsuccessfully tries to impress some other boys by eating 5 ice cream sodas. When he has to throw up, to escape the mocking boys, he runs into a lifeboat area to evade their ridicule while purging his overindulgence, and manages to fall overboard into the ocean.

Instances of people falling overboard into the open ocean are rather commonly reported in the news. Usually they are lost, but if by chance their accidents are observed and a life-preserver is thrown to them, is that the end of the story, do we just say, "oh, well, you have a floatation device, you're okay now"?

No, we have to pull them in. The life-preserver, the lifesaver, is only part of the formula for saving their lives. There is also a rope, which must be attached to the life-preserver, and must be used to finally accomplish their salvation.

Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man. But on the man side of the equation, unlike the radical individuality most typified by J.J. Rousseau, we who life the life of Christians do so in communities. But even then, we do not abide as atomistic individualists. We live our Jesus-oriented life in relation to our fellows. "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." – Hebrews 10:25.

Jesus' first disciple was his mother, who gave us the total account of his early life and who "treasured these things up in her heart". "A sword will pierce your own soul too, so that the secret thoughts of many hearts might be revealed". On the cross, he gave his mother to John to take in his home, but when you take your master's mother, she takes care of you.

Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth; she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. …

And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon had poured from his mouth. Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. - Rev 11:19 -- 12:17

She forms the body of Christ. She schools her son's disciples. Those who won't attend her school, remain ignorant.

We are in a time when any merely human institution would be washed away. Our churches are going under the shadow of a new Heresy of Ba'al of Peor, as when the Hebrew people were successfully attacked and overwhelmed through human sexuality. Our churches are now pro-gay and as soon as the civil authority authorizes child sex, they will be indistinguishable from the denizens of the town of Sodom: "Bring them out that we may know them".

Jesus' mother forms the few of the elect who will resist being fooled by the great apostasy. Those who will not avail themselves of the lifeline of Mary, will be lost.

[daniel1212]

A large portion of the nt was written by people who never met Jesus that is my point. At least Luke and Paul were never present for any of his teaching. Therefore most of it was oral tradition which is unreliable by protestant standards.

Paul received direct revelation from the Lord, and most of what he wrote was written directly as Scripture. And while God also inspired the actual writing of Truths from oral tradition, this not only does not mean that those orally passed-down truths were all given under plenary inspiration of God (any more than in the case of quoting pagan prophets), but it also cannot mean that all that is passed down orally is wholly inspired of God.

The reality is that oral tradition is by nature unreliable, being supremely subject to corruption, while as can be more shown, God manifestly made writing His most-reliable means of authoritative preservation.

And yet since some of Scripture consistent of teachings and records that were passed down, orally or in some form of writing, the issue is on what basis are those who be accepted as being from God, versus all that claims to be from God, whether orally passed down or in writing.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

.

[ealgeone]

A reasonable person would wonder just WHY those early oral teachings didn't get written down and included in the Book. Rome had PLENTY of time (as well as the POWER) to do so.

AND at Trent, when Roman Catholicism dogmatically declared their canon, they could have added them to the canon.

That they didn't is telling.

[daniel1212]

Some, like Hebrews, there is no agreement who wrote it. Someone passed it orally to them.

Hebrews likely was originally a synagogue address, but 2 Peter 3:15 (And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you) indicates Paul was the author (which Trent also said), yet the style is very different than seen in all of (passionate) Paul's letters (including always identifying himself as the author, and can indicate that the polished eloquence of it was thru the instrumentation of another.

Which means that once again, it is the written version that God chose to preserve, and that this best conveys what God wanted to reveal to man as the pure word of God.

[daniel1212]

I haven't gotten an answer yet. I can generalize, though --- unless someone wants to jump in and set me straight --- that since Catholics don't (to my knowledge) swarm distinctively Protestant threads, which may probably indicate that Catholic don't think swarming is an appropriate thing to do to other people's discussions. I am open to correction here.

When was the last time you saw distinctively Protestant OPEN threads of articles promoting a uniquely "one true church" or openly attacking Catholic beliefs," while how many RCs have done the like for Rome and against Protestantism, while how many Prots have been zotted for posting articles attacking Rome, versus RCs for attacking Protestantism? Double standard liberalism?

But how man articles like Happy excommunication day Martin Luther excommunicated did not receive many Catholics contentions?

[Mrs. Don-o]

OK, answer me that. I don’t generally go to Protestant threads, so I don’t know how many have run up 500+ tit-for-tats fueled by aggressive Catholics. Care to say?

[ealgeone]

OK, answer me that. I don’t generally go to Protestant threads, so I don’t know how many have run up 500+ tit-for-tats fueled by aggressive Catholics. Care to say?

From what I've experienced on these threads is that the Roman Catholic, as a general rule, does not want to deal with any critique of their denomination.

Some RCs, have openly called for threads to be pulled that were critical of Roman Catholicism.

Some RCs, have cried to mgt about "Catholic bashing", though they overlook the daily posts against their pope by fellow RCs.

Some posters have been banned, either short term or permanent, from posting even in open forums against Roman Catholicism.

I personally have been subjected to the above.

I will say though in your defense, you do participate in these threads.

I personally enjoy the interaction and discussion. I have learned a tremendous amount from these threads.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Areas of agreement we may largely share:

• for the most part, Catholics do not swarm onto distinctively Protestant threads by Protestant original posters. Not to the extent of racking up 500 - 800 volleys.
  
• there's such as thing as charitable and rational critiquing, which is to be distinguished from
• what's more properly called "bashing"

I, like you, ealgeone, can enjoy a good discussion (and a hat tip to you, daniel1212, for going to sources). I try to keep in mind "bear wrongs patiently, forgive all injuries," but I do not tolerate being told I am a liar and a blasphemer, that I am frothing-drooling-spitting-pussing out diabolical obstinacy-delusion-deceit-madness.

I think tolerating personal calumny is wrong, because it may lure the offender into ever more reckless sin. Dishing or tolerating abusive language is certainly the opposite of the edification of the minds and souls of those whom, in Christ, we love.

[MHGinTN]

Do I read you right? You believe Christians should tolerate heresies and blasphemies and not defend the Gospel as offered in The Word of God?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thanks for asking.

No, you are not reading me right.

[MHGinTN]

Why don’t you clarify then?

[daniel1212]

Areas of agreement we may largely share: for the most part, Catholics do not swarm onto distinctively Protestant threads by Protestant original posters. Not to the extent of racking up 500 - 800 volleys.

But where do you see a Protestant article such titled "Mary is not the Rope Jesus Chose To Reel Us In?" And while a thread like "Becoming Catholic" also can see hundreds of responses, where do you see any threads by Protestants that present their church as uniquely being the one true church, with distinctive doctrines? ,

The Mormons who did that here also saw multitudes of Protestants replies, as such a elitist claim is worthy of censure, yet traditional Catholics present themselves as victims while promoting and defending their arrogant claim and teachings that do not rest upon the weight of Scriptural substantiation for their veracity. Yet unlike the Mormons, it has been Protestants who have been censured from posting articles attacking Rome, while they have attacked Protestantism.

but I do not tolerate being told I am a liar and a blasphemer, that I am frothing-drooling-spitting-pussing out diabolical obstinacy-delusion-deceit-madness.

Well, not all of that.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Well, not all that."

`

:o)

[Mrs. Don-o]

I'll try:

Patiently correcting error is one of the works of mercy. It comes under "instructing the ignorant," and it is done in that spirit, mercy.

As Paul tells his catechists:

"Do not speak harshly to an older man,[a] but speak to him as to a father, to younger men as brothers, 2 to older women as mothers, to younger women as sisters—with absolute purity."

"But we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children. So, affectionately longing for you, we were well pleased to impart to you not only the gospel of God, but also our own lives, because you had become dear to us."

"We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed. But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God, in much patience."

"Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.

But you, O man of God, pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness."

[piusv]

OK. I finally found something that I think, although not exactly what I was looking for, is acceptable. This should answer your question regarding “earning” Heaven.

http://www.catholicrebuttals.com/earning-heaven.html

[Mrs. Don-o]

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

[Religion Moderator]

When using quote marks in a reply, please quote accurately.

Removing even one word makes it not a quote.

Thank you.

[Religion Moderator]

“I do not tolerate being told I am a liar and a blasphemer, that I am frothing-drooling-spitting-pussing out diabolical obstinacy-delusion-deceit-madness”

Please give links to where you have been told those specific comments in the Religion Forum and I will remove them.

They are personal attacks and are not allowed by the Guidelines of the Religion Forum.

Always report via RM FR mail right when they are posted.

[Luircin]

Appreciated!

[2nd amendment mama]

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