Replies

“If you believe you can lose salvation because you sin willfully, you do not know what forgiveness is about....”

Please try to read paragraphs. I know what forgiveness is about. And if you read the commentary link, it would have explored it a bit further. But at the same time....scripture is scripture. When I quote it, you don’t get to say the writer of Hebrews does “not know what forgiveness is about”! As it says in the linked commentary:

“The word rendered “wilfully” occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 Peter 5:2, where it is rendered “willingly”...It properly means, “willingly, voluntarily, of our own accord,” and applies to cases where no constraint is used.

It is not to be construed here strictly, or metaphysically, for all sin is voluntary, or is committed willingly, but must refer to a deliberate act, where a man means to abandon his religion, and to turn away from God. If it were to be taken with metaphysical exactness, it would demonstrate that every Christian who ever does anything wrong, no matter how small, would be lost.

But this cannot, from the nature of the case, be the meaning. The apostle well knew that Christians do commit such sins...and sins of presumption; sins that are deliberately and intentionally committed...The apostle here has reference, evidently, to such a distinction, and means to speak of a decided and deliberate purpose to break away from the restraints and obligations of the Christian religion.”

“All of the scripture you reference where you think it is about loss of salvation are talking about eternal rewards.”

Absolutely not! That is insane.

“Now if we sin deliberately after we have known and accepted the truth, there can be no further sacrifice for sin for us but only a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fire of God’s indignation, which will one day consume all that sets itself against him. The man who showed contempt for Moses’ Law died without hope of appeal on the evidence of two or three of his fellows. How much more dreadful a punishment will he be thought to deserve who has poured scorn on the Son of God, treated like dirt the blood of the agreement which had once made him holy, and insulted the very Spirit of grace? For we know the one who said: ‘Vengeance is mine: I will repay’. And again: ‘The Lord will judge his people’. Truly it is a terrible thing for a man who has done this to fall into the hands of the living God!”

That sooooooooooo obviously is not merely discussing a loss of eternal reward!

“no further sacrifice for sin for us but only a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fire of God’s indignation, which will one day consume all that sets itself against him” - THAT is what you say merely involves the loss of a reward?

PUT DOWN YOUR CALVIN GOGGLES! READ THE TEXT! IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS!

John Calvin was not Jesus Christ! John Calvin is not higher than the Apostle Paul!

“You cannot be unborn.”

You keep repeating this as if it was scripture. It isn’t, and it is not true. You are born into this world, and death will take you from it. You most certainly CAN be “unborn”. It happens to everyone who dies!

And please stop pretending I’m saying salvation is earned and not a gift. NOTHING I’ve written even suggests that. You can accept a gift. You can reject a gift. And you can accept it and then later give it back. Choice.

“Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” - Mark 1

He commanded all to “repent and believe”. Unless he was lying, he MEANT it. He does not make one person believe and deny belief to another. He offers salvation. He doesn’t impose it. He doesn’t limit the offer.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

Whoever believes. Faith is not a “work”. It describes having belief. But what happens to those who stop believing?

“They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.” - Romans 11

When Calvin disagrees, you need to disagree with Calvin. It is Jesus we must cling to, not John Calvin!