Posted on 05/30/2019 3:23:33 PM PDT by ebb tide
May 30, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – To suggest that hell is empty amounts to calling Jesus a liar, LifeSiteNews co-founder and editor-in-chief John-Henry Westen told a recent gathering of Catholic pro-life and family advocates in Rome. That hell contains human souls who have rejected God is established by the Lord in scripture and held by the Catholic faith since its beginning.
“Jesus himself says to us, “Broad is the road that leads to destruction and many there are that go there,” said Westen. “And he said, “Narrow is the road that leads to life and few there are that find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)
Westen was answering a question at the Rome Life Forum — held earlier this month — about the Superior General of the Jesuit order having said the devil does not exist as well as reports of Pope Francis denying the existence of hell in favor of the annihilation of “lost souls.”
“In order to suggest that hell is empty you need to suggest that Jesus is a liar,” Westen stated.
The annual Rome Life Forum took place May 16-17 at the Pontifical University of St Thomas Aquinas (the Angelicum). Pro-life and family advocates and Catholics from across the world attended the event hosted by Voice of the Family and co-sponsored by LifeSiteNews, Associazione Famiglia Domani (Italy), Family Life International New Zealand, and the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (UK).
Westen first clarified in the Q&A session on the subject of hell that Cardinal Raymond Burke, other bishops and priests had publicly corrected Jesuit Superior General Fr. Arturo Sosa Abascal’s 2017 comments saying the devil is a “symbolic figure” who doesn’t really exist.
Regarding the pope’s statement about the existence of hell, the comments referenced were reportedly made in conversations with famous atheist author Eugenio Scalfari in the left-wing newspaper Scalfari founded La Repubblica.
Francis has done a series of interviews with Scalfari, each resulting in controversy for what Scalfari reports the pope said, with the no hell narrative forming a pattern with Scalfari. The atheist author has reported in September 2014, March 2015, October 2017 and March 2018 that Francis had told him that there is no hell and unrepentant souls are not punished and instead annihilated. After Scalfari’s reports, the Vatican has typically had to issue some sort of clarification emphasizing that the quotes are not accurate. Scalfari admits the interviews are “reconstructions” from memory, that he takes no notes and does not use a recorder.
In the March 2015 interview with Scalfari where he says the pope denied hell for lost souls, his article says:
“What happens to that lost soul? Will it be punished? And how? The response of Francis is distinct and clear: there is no punishment, but the annihilation of that soul. All the others will participate in the beatitude of living in the presence of the Father. The souls that are annihilated will not take part in that banquet; with the death of the body their journey is finished.”
Another Scalfari interview with Francis from March 2018 that has the pope denying the existence of hell was followed by the Vatican releasing a statement saying the text “should be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father” but never addressed the question of hell or the annihilation of souls. Nonetheless the media by-and-large stayed with the original narrative – leaving people to believe Scalfari’s report of what was said.
An October 2013 interview between Francis and Scalfari that had Francis saying that the “most serious” evils are “youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old” was pulled from the Vatican website due to Scalfari admitting his writings are reconstructed from memory.
Additionally from that interview, Francis was reported to have said that “proselytism is solemn nonsense,” and that “there is no Catholic God.”
One of the difficulties with those interviews, Westen explained to the Rome Life Forum, is that Scalfari doesn’t take notes, goes home, and then writes up what’s there.
Complaints were lodged with the Vatican about them, he said, since the Vatican puts the Scalfari interviews on its website. The 2013 story came down for a period but was put back up, he said, there was no official correction from either the pope or the Holy See Press Office.
The other difficulty with the statement denying hell, continued Westen, is that in Francis’ exhortation Amoris Laetitia, there is a line in there that says, “no one is condemned forever, that’s not the logic of the Gospel.”
“That seems to corroborate what was said in the Scalfari interview,” Westen said. “And has anyone corrected that? Well, not specifically.”
He said it’s very difficult for cardinals and bishops to correct the pope.
“Their call is to ask for clarity,” Westen explained. “And that’s an act of love and charity, because the cardinals as collaborators of the Holy Father for the good of the Church have that responsibility from Christ to bring clarity. And the role of the pope is to bring unity to the Church.”
The cardinals have asked in love for clarity from the pope, he said, not in any way out of any kind of jealousy or hatred for the pope.
Westen said there are other reliable sources beyond Scripture that confirm lost souls do go to hell.
“It was confirmed by Our Lady at Fatima when she showed the three children the vision of hell,” said Westen. “They saw people in hell!”
Descriptions from the Fatima apparitions even distinguished who the demons in hell were, he continued.
And Sister Lucia, in an interview from the 1950’s with Father Riccardo Lombardi, and author who’d written a book questioning the existence of hell, and in the interview when he asked her about the possibility of an empty hell, Sister Lucia told him, “No Father, many are in hell.”
Sister Lucia had affirmed three times for the priest, Westen said, using the same term as Jesus to quantify the souls in hell, “many.”
Jesus said something else on the question, Westen pointed out, when speaking to his apostles about Judas, saying, “Better were it for him had he not been born.”
“If anyone commits a mortal sin – they’re hell-bound,” stated Westen. “If they repent, they’re heaven-bound.”
“If you’re heaven-bound, it can’t be better for you had you not been born,” he said. “So again, you (would) make Jesus a liar.”
“So the answer to, has it been corrected is - It’s been corrected since the beginning,” Westen said.
Ping
It is the clear teaching of Scripture that there is a Hell and that those in it will suffer for eternity. In fact, it is none other than Jesus himself that gives up the most information about Hell. It is Jesus that makes it clear that Hell is for eternity.
“Catholic” leaders who deny Hell are manifest heretics...and therefore, not Catholic leaders.
I have little to add execept why the the Pope discussing these things? The obvious answer is he has an agenda. At the time, my then pastor rolled his eyes that they elected a Jesuit. Francis is loved by the world. Enough said.
I have little to add execept why the the Pope discussing these things? The obvious answer is he has an agenda. At the time, my then pastor rolled his eyes that they elected a Jesuit. Francis is loved by the world. Enough said.
Even under universal-salvation hypotheses, the devil and his angels still end up in hell as God’s eternal enemies successfully sworn to never changing their stance.
There are countless ways to destruction but only one way to redemption — Jesus personally. “I am the door.” “I am the way.”
As a matter of fact Jesus made far more reference to hell and very few if any to heaven. The reason being that only christ go to Heaven and that we should be concentrating on the greatest gift there is, which is forgiving take away of sins and living. Heaven is not even mentioned, but hell sure is mentioned several times
I see this meme pop up frequently but haven’t seen a statistical accounting to back it up. And it sounds like a quibble, befitting your moniker — Jesus’s entire ministry was about bringing heaven to earth to begin for the born again even before they die — “I have called you friends.” To be fair to Him here, we would have to count in all references to heaven in whatever terms, e.g. everlasting life.
And... this fits with the nature of heaven and of hell. Heaven is a copiously multifarious thing. Hell can be packed into a nutshell with its “weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Jesus had no need to make references to hell florid.
One could see hell as a kind of severe grace — those who are absolutely adamant about being foes of God are granted a place to impotently rage at Him forever, in service to their small-g god. C. S. Lewis surmised that there might be perverse, black pleasures in hell that would frighten the wits out of anyone else.
This is a catholic caucus. Are you a Catholic?
If not, please refrain from posting on it.
"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 7:21]
"Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 5:10]
"Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you." [Matthew 5:12]
"For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 5:20]
"And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven:" [Matthew 8:11]
"And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 18:3]
"Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven." [Matthew 18:4]
"Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me." [Matthew 19:21]
More likely hell is where they are sent to keep them away from the righteous. It is to protect the righteous. That is its only primary purpose. Some men just can not be trusted. Everyone in heaven however, can be trusted. Otherwise there would be no heaven. Just hundreds of thousands of years of war.
The following link makes a valiant effort to deny the manifest heretic part of things
https://romalocutaest.com/2017/03/07/does-amoris-laetitia-297-deny-hell/
but even if successful, that does not make them leaders. Any sheep with a half an ounce of sense is going to be fairly skittish.
These days it seems that one religion or another is denying
every thing Jesus said.
HiTech RedNeck,
Good Lord, what has happened to this once-great site !?!
My completely tame and honest comment, to which you replied, was censored for some unknown reason.
I realize it is a Catholic thread. I said I was a long-time former member. Hell, I was an alter boy, 8 yrs Catholic grade school, Catholic College, nuns in the family, the whole nine yards.
I was not disrespectful or combative at all.
Now I get the Left-wing , safe-space treatment.
But I suppose Pelosi would be welcome.
Sheeesh, moderator. Grow up. Catholics are not snowflakes.
Acts 2:34
For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand
John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
One plausible observation of a vacant hell, is the inhabitants now rule the House of Representatives. 0;^(
Please resolve this issue as quickly as possible, so that we can resume discussing how many angles can dance on the head of a pin!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.