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To: Mrs. Don-o; Salvation
Please tell us, then, do you believe God does not lead the Pope, the leader of the Catholic Church? Or do you not believe God led the Cardinals to properly elect him? Or something else, Mrs. Don-o?
26 posted on 05/29/2019 6:08:56 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: ConservativeMind

Maybe he was elected to get rid of the papolatry that seems to afflict so many Catholics.


27 posted on 05/29/2019 6:18:31 PM PDT by rmichaelj (Ave Maria gratia plena, Dominus tecum.)
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To: ConservativeMind; Mrs. Don-o; Salvation
If God leads the cardinals, as you claim, why hasn't every papal election been unanimous?

If God leads all popes why did Pope Benedict XVI lift the suppression that Paul VI had placed on the Tridentine Mass; or why is Francis now going after Humanae Vitae, issued by Paul VI, whom Francis hss just canonized?

The Vatican is Coming After Humanae Vitae: Time to Fight Back

Face it, CM, Bergoglio follows some "god of surprises", but it is not the Holy Trinity.

29 posted on 05/29/2019 6:37:31 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: ConservativeMind
Thank you for asking, Conservative Mind. I am happy to clarify.

I believe that God leads, not only the Pope, but all who call upon His name. Scripture says we are called to different gifts, to different works, by one Holy Spirit.

Being led is always contingent upon our consent, because none of us are automata. God's will is not contingent upon our performance, but His will shall prevail, through us or despite us.

The same goes for the conclave that elects a pope. Surely everyone is praying for the Spirit's guidance, but just as surely Cardinals can make bad choices. You may note that only 83 out of 266 popes are officially canonized saints (roughly 1/3), and some of those chosen were incontestably scoundrels.

By my count (I am not the Judge, but I have my opinions!) about 10 or 11 were criminally bad. I would say ---my opinion --- under 5%. Jesus' personal picks turned out 8% criminal (speaking of Judas) so I supposed 5 - 8 percent bad apples may be par.

A great many more popes were well-intended, but variously flawed, smart, dumb, ambitious, lazy, naive, cowardly, mediocre, many merely adequate and yet to some extent derelict in their duties. But they didn't lead the whole Church into error: Men, thank you for your service.

Not only that, but there were some 30-40 antipopes in history, which means the elections were contested, resulting in two claimants. (These weren't all villains: some of this was just a result of political vagaries and electoral glitches, and I think one of the antipopes is now a canonized saint.)

There was one particularly bumpy stretch in the early 15th century (the Western Schism) when for 40 years there were two, and sometimes three simultaneous claimants to the papacy. This produced crippling historic consequences that are still plaguing us even to this day.

That is not to say that the Holy Spirit has failed to protect the Church. On the contrary, the survival of the Church, the honest, loyal Christ-honoring and civilization-creating faith of her millionfold members and the incomparable glory of her saints--- despite clerical malpractice going right up to the top--- constitutes a historically unique example of Divine Providence.

In the early 1800's, Cardinal Ercole Consalvi served as Vatican Secretary of State under Pope Pius VI, who had a long-running dispute with Napoleon. At one point, Napoleon burst out in anger, "I will destroy the Church!" Consalvi replied, "Your Majesty, with all due respect, if we clergy haven't been able to destroy the Church in 1800 years, what makes you think you could do it?" `

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31 posted on 05/29/2019 6:46:55 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is better to be slapped with the Truth than to be kissed with a Lie.")
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