Rome's Revision of the Lord's Prayer and the Coming Hour of Testing

Unsealed ^ | 12-17-2-18 | Jeff

[edwinland]

Haha! OK will do. Let me collect my thoughts and I’ll reply tomorrow.

[edwinland]

How does He do that?

It's a question that has been asked before. Here's the way the Church describes it: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c3a8.htm (see 688 and 737 to 747) One way to think about it is that it's the same presence of the same Holy Spirit among the apostles after Pentacost, continued until this day.

[metmom]

One way to think about it is that it's the same presence of the same Holy Spirit among the apostles after Pentacost, continued until this day.

Considering that little event concerning Ananias and Sapphira, who simply LIED, in light of the goings on in Roman Catholicism over the centuries, I would doubt that.

[boatbums]

This is the link for that comment:

https://www.gotquestions.org/lead-us-not-into-temptation.html

[nikos1121]

I never pictured myself having to ask God to please do not take me down the aisle where the candy is. That sounds like a prayer I would ask to the devil or the devil inside me.

I get what you’re trying to say and I appreciate the time you took to send me this explanation however if you really look at that line it doesn’t sound as clean and neat as it should be. I just don’t think we should be asking God to not lead us into Tim Tatian. Maybe the line is protect us from temptation Or like the pope is implying be there when we are tempted to Sin or stray. The next line deliver us from evil maybe it should be “deliver us from Temptation and evil.”

[metmom]

Here is a link to the Greek.

Read for yourself.

https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/6-13.htm

[nikos1121]

My brother teaches Classical Greek at Wheaton College where Billy Graham graduated. I’ll ask him.

Your link is interesting. It gives the translation from three bibles.

1. New American Standard Bible
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’

2. King James Bible
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

3. Holman Christian Standard Bible
And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

No 3 is slightly different, and seems closer to how I understand it.

The other link you gave talks about God being like our mother when we’re, at age 5, at the grocery store. She knows NOT to take us down the aisle where the candy is, since we’ll be tempted, and we’ll react.

Sorry, I just don’t think we should pray that God, does NOT take us down the aisle where the candy is.

For me, it’s more like God being there, when we fight temptation and evil to help us thru this.

I think the Lord’s prayer says that, “Lead us not into temptation” ,but for me it would be MORE CLEAR and COMFORTING if it reads “Lead us from temptation”

[nikos1121]

I think the passage should read, simply:

“Lead us from temptation.”

[edwinland]

I can’t see the relevance of that story. What should have happened if what the Church teaches about the Holy Spirit is true?

[metmom]

Near the top of the page is a tab called *Parallel* and if you click on that, then you get far more than three translations.

This one should take you to the parallels.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-13.htm

[metmom]

The relevance is that if it’s the same Holy Spirit, then there ought not to be the level of sin running rampant within Catholicism that we see.

Roman Catholicism of today bears little resemblance to the NT church as described in the book of Acts.

For that matter, that’s probably true of most churches these days.

[nikos1121]

Thank you.

It looks like only one stands out to being what it truly was intended:

Contemporary English Version

“Keep us from being tempted and protect us from evil. “

[nikos1121]

“Lead us not into temptation” is not the right translation. I agree with the Pope, but not sure if he’s making it any better.

[metmom]

It doesn’t seem this pope is making anything better......

[nikos1121]

I’m not catholic so wouldn’t know, but for sure he’s coming down on the wrong side on issues, and he’s no leader ie like Pope John Paul was, ie the Polish Pope.

[edwinland]

Got it now. I guess applying the analogy there should be much less sin or a lot more bodies.

[metmom]

Exactly.......

[nikos1121]

My brother who teaches Classical Greek sent me this: The verb in the Lord's Prayer: "Lead us not into temptation" is εἰσφέρω, which is made up of the prefix εἰς ("into") and φέρω ("lead"). It literally means "to lead or bring someone or something into a place or condition." The verb occurs in the following verses: And behold, some men were bringing on a bed a man who was paralyzed, and they were seeking to bring him in and lay him before Jesus. ( Luke 5:18) For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. (1 Tim. 6:7) So, a literal translation of the Greek in the Lord's Prayer in light of the word's use elsewhere would be "Bring us not into temptation." What is interesting about this is Jesus does not tell his disciples to pray that they "might not sin" but that they wouldn't even be "tempted." In other words, he wants his disciples to not even want to be tempted!!! This brings them a step further away from the sin. Will be interesting to see how the Greek speaking church responds to Rome. SO, ACCORDING TO THE GREEK TRANSLATION, THE LORD'S PRAYER AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IS THE LITERAL TRANSLATION.

[nikos1121]

Mt brother who teaches classical Greek responded to me. See post #98. Interesting. He says the Lord’s Prayer as written is the correct translation.