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To: otness_e

Not a lie, God got 4 people out before he destroyed it. God said nothing about what he’d do if his own angels were threatened with sexual assault. God did not destroy the righteous along with the wicked.

Abraham was acting as a tenderhearted intercessor and I believe God honored that, giving Abraham respect and dignity over his concerns. Abraham already knew Sodom to be wicked which is why he refused to take any direct rewards for the defeat of Sodom’s enemies when Abe rescued lot.(What he did take was given as a gift to Melchizidek).

We see the same principle when God, angry with Israel for their disobedience, determined to destroy them and offering to make of Moses a great nation. Moses interceded and while agreeing that Israel was a stiffnecked people nevertheless persuaded God to withhold destroying them completely.

We see the same principle again when the entire Earth was noted to be filled with sin, God made in Flesh, came to earth to die for us and intercedes for us before God the Father.

We see the same principle of hope and possible intercession at the final judgment when all the books are opened so that one may, at last possible moment just might find oneself written in the Lamb’s Book of Life...otherwise why have a final judgment at all, if God already knows all? Who will be that last possible intercessor that saves us from hell fire? God is judge and many will see hell but I think there will be surprises as well. The Bible says that the Father is not willing that men should perish but rather have everlasting life....I think that was Christ’s first imperative as it was for Moses for his nation and as it was for Abraham for the sake of any righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah!


81 posted on 07/01/2019 12:17:38 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
"Not a lie, God got 4 people out before he destroyed it. God said nothing about what he’d do if his own angels were threatened with sexual assault."

"He said that he would spare the city for the sake of 10 but silence from God to Abraham about the real situation in Sodom was not a lie for God already had a plan to get Lot and his family out of Sodom and indeed the city of Zoar was spared as Lot had gotten permission to stay there as God destroyed Sodom."

That's EXACTLY the reason why I said God lied to Abraham. He knew full well what the real situation of Sodom and Gomorrah was like, yet deliberately gave Abraham false hopes there was even a chance that they'd be spared from destruction by doing the barter game at all. There's a reason why, in a court of law during testimonies, they specifically ask "Do you tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help ye to God?" before doing so. Leaving out any details, especially relating to the event in question, is the exact same thing as lying, even if there are elements that are true to it (in fact, there's even a term for that situation: Perjury). At least by divulging everything to Abraham and utterly crushing Abraham's hopes to such an extent that he's left a deeply broken man even with Lot and his daughters being spared from destruction, God would have shown himself to be honest and incapable of lying.

Let me put it another way: In the game Metal Gear Solid, Solid Snake has to disarm a nuke that terrorists acquired on Shadow Moses Island. Roy Campbell, his Commanding Officer, during new developments, comes across as shocked, but Snake gets ticked off, and repeatedly accuses him of lying to him due to pretty clearly realizing Roy knew more than he let on, even resulting in the near termination of their friendship as a result (and the reason he hid information from Snake relating to the mission and thus outright lying to him, and they actually used those exact terms, "lying," in that game, was because the DOD essentially had arranged for his niece, Meryl, to be held prisoner at FOXHOUND specifically to force him to be silent). Something similar happens in Metal Gear Solid 2 with Raiden and the Colonel, and at one point, between Snake and Raiden, especially when Otacon implied they deliberately withheld information because they thought Raiden was gullible. What God did is EXACTLY like what Roy Campbell, Colonel, and Snake did in those exact situations. Here's the videos if you're curious:

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01GJ74X_R4

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5AunfmI8bs

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlL-Ytyu0U (this is for the bit where Raiden accuses Snake of lying to him, albeit not quite to his face)

And quite frankly, aside from that, God also deliberately put his own angels in harms way thanks to that. Were it me in his position, I wouldn't even bother with the barter game, and probably would just crush Abraham's hopes by mind-raping him with all the horrific elements Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of as a response to Abraham even daring to get me to enter the barter game at all, to the extent that Abraham'd probably end up like Samus after she encountered Ridley and he forcibly reintroduced her to her past of being a survivor of his genocidal raid on K-2L here, even with Lot and his family being spared (which I'd make sure I'd spare all the same):

*http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.php?gallery_id=mga_mv2ch8&image_id=23

*http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.php?gallery_id=mga_mv2ch9&image_id=19

*http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.php?gallery_id=mga_mv2ch10&image_id=2

And for a full version so you'll get the full meat, here's the full chapters:

*http://metroid.retropixel.net/features/comics/metroidmanga/chapter8/

*http://metroid.retropixel.net/features/comics/metroidmanga/chapter9/

http://metroid.retropixel.net/features/comics/metroidmanga/chapter10/

As far as intercession, I'm sorry, but I simply can't buy the idea of an omnipotent and omniscient God just conceding with or even being reasoned by someone who's inferior. Actually, from what I've seen of those types in various media, they're more likely to just go out of their way to crush those they deem inferior simply because they can, like the examples I cited earlier. If anything, I'd buy it more if Abraham, Moses, or even Jesus when trying to intercede has God yell "shut up!" and smack them down to the ground before ordering for the execution as he had planned. I'd see him as being unwilling to even be reasoned with by inferiors due to viewing that as appearing weaker than his own creation. Don't get me wrong, Jesus did die for our sins, unfortunately, that's not enough for me, especially when God dropped the ball by not ripping out our free will afterwards to ensure we're back under his thumb, which was the entire POINT behind his sacrifice.
85 posted on 07/02/2019 6:54:40 AM PDT by otness_e
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