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Why Every Christian, Not Just Catholics, Should Be Very Worried About The Catholic Sex Scandal
The Federalist ^ | 09/17/2018 | By Willis L. Krumholz and Robert Delahunty

Posted on 09/17/2018 11:01:08 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The rapidly unfolding crisis in the Roman Catholic Church is not a matter of concern to Catholics alone. Its true dimensions have yet to be measured, but we think it will prove to be a crisis on the scale of the Protestant Reformation, which began just over 500 years ago — an earthquake of 9.5 on the Richter scale. If so, resolution of the crisis will take decades to work through.

Resolution and absolution will require serious effort, and most likely require deep, structural reforms. Even if we are mistaken, the Catholic crisis is of such a magnitude that Christians of all denominations must take a serious interest in it.

We are both evangelical Christians with strong ties to the Catholic Church and deep respect for it. One of us was raised as a Catholic, was educated at Catholic primary and secondary schools, and has taught for the past 14 years at a Catholic law school; the other is a graduate of the law school and the business school of that Catholic university, and has many Catholic family members.

We also care deeply about our many Catholic friends, and the health of the Roman Catholic Church, which is an enormous force for good in this world. We also believe that what happens with the Catholic Church will affect Christianity worldwide. In other words, we have a stake in the matter.

Non-Catholics Should Pay Attention

Some Catholics may regard the crisis in their church as a purely internal matter, and consider outside commentary unwelcome and intrusive, even if it is well-meant. Likewise, many non-Catholic Christians may assume the Catholic crisis does not affect them at all, and perhaps even find in that crisis confirmation for their darkest views of Catholicism.

We do not accept that position. Non-Catholic Christians should take an active part in the conversation about the Catholic crisis. While they must be unfailingly tactful and sympathetic, they should also be as critical as is necessary given what is at stake. The well-known writer Rod Dreher, formerly a Catholic and now Eastern Orthodox, has posted frequently on the Catholic crisis, and is a magnificent model for other non-Catholic Christians to follow.

Among many reasons for non-Catholic interventions, three stand out in our minds.

1. The Victims

First, every Christian has a compelling obligation to protect the weak and vulnerable to the greatest extent possible. The victims of clerical sex abuse in the Catholic Church (as elsewhere) have often been children. While many victims have been compensated — if “compensation” for such injuries is really possible — and the Catholic Church in many places has instituted practices to guard against future abuse, it remains necessary to speak on behalf of those who have been victimized and those who may still be at risk.

All Christians, especially Catholics, should be angry. It is unbearable to think of what has been done “to the least of these” by those claiming to speak in the name of Christ. Many of the children targeted and abused came from broken and dysfunctional homes. Many are fatherless.

The church is charged with mending the emptiness that a broken family brings, not violently shattering a child’s world. God is the father to the fatherless. What would Christ, who overturned tables at the temple and chased out the moneychangers with a whip, do to those who sexually molest his children?

Far too many in the church hierarchy, including the pope, are not sufficiently angry. For example, this coming January, Cardinal Barbarin, the archbishop of Lyons in France, will be standing trial for allegedly covering up the crimes of a local priest who, in the 1980s, sexually abused Boy Scouts. A local priest has gathered more than 100,000 signatures to petition the pope to remove this cardinal.

Thus far, however, Pope Francis seems not to have responded to that petition. However, in 2016, despite knowing of the allegations against the cardinal, and apparently without meeting or hearing the victims of the priest’s abuse, Pope Francis praised Barbarin as “brave.” He also has not ordered a canonical proceeding against him.

We are not prejudging Barbarin’s guilt or innocence: that depends on the outcome of his case in January. But we think it is fair to say that Pope Francis’ handling of the affair indicates that he is — at best — over-eager to defend his hierarchy and insufficiently attentive to those who have suffered at their hands.

The pope is not the only member of the Catholic hierarchy who seems simply unable to register the severity of the injuries they cause to their victims, and others at risk from them. Recently, on a visit to a seminary, Chicago Cardinal Blase Cupich, a Francis appointee, answered one anguished young candidate for the priesthood by saying, “While the church’s ‘agenda’ certainly involves protecting kids from harm, ‘we have a bigger agenda than to be distracted by all of this.’” His audience was reportedly dumbfounded: Surely the problem of sexual abuse of seminaries and children is more than a “distraction?”

In a similar vein, Cardinal Oscar Maradiaga of Honduras has excoriated a group of 50 Honduran seminarians for petitioning the Vatican to correct homosexual abuses going on in their seminary. We apparently are to believe that 50 seminaries are spreading malicious lies, while Madariaga, whose top aide resigned last July in the wake of charges of sexual and financial misconduct, is only speaking the truth.

Moreover, the victims of clerical abuse and the hierarchical concealment of them are not limited to those who have personally suffered sexual affronts. The financial costs to the Catholic Church of litigating and settling abuse cases have been staggering, and are now likely to escalate much higher. In 2015, the National Catholic Reporter found that the church had incurred $4 billion since 1950 in costs related to clerical sex abuse.

Research has also found that the church lost about $2.3 billion annually over the last 30 years due to scandal-related consequences, in the form of lost membership, and diverted giving. Specifically, there is a notable drop in giving in areas rocked by abuse. This makes sense. Why should good people give to pay for bad things?

Abuse litigation in the Los Angeles Archdiocese alone cost $740 million. Yet the former archbishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Roger Mahony, under whose tenure (1985-2011) there were 500 alleged victims, is still considered a “priest in good standing” and has not been demoted by the pope.

These amounts will likely rise significantly in the wake of the recent report by a Pennsylvania grand jury detailing abuse in most (but not all) of that state’s Catholic dioceses, the overwhelming likelihood that similar investigations will occur in other states, and the risk that statutes of limitations will be amended to expose the Catholic Church to greater liability.

That means the American Catholic Church has had, and will have, far fewer resources to help the poor, to care for the sick, to shelter the homeless, and to educate children. These are victims too.

2. Concern for Fellow Christians

Second, even if you happen not to be a Catholic, surely you have Catholic family members, spouses, close friends, or colleagues who are Catholics. Almost half of the U.S. population has a “strong” connection to the Catholic Church. We have often found the Catholics closest to us to be dismayed by the situation in their church — angry, stunned, confused, or even in denial. Fellow Christians should share their agony.

The other Christian churches should want a healthy, robust Catholic Church, not the gravely weakened one of the present. American Catholicism was losing members alarmingly even before the current phase of the Catholic crisis. It is said that the second largest American denomination, after the Catholic Church, is ex-Catholics.

Not all of that decline is due to the clerical scandals; the general re-paganization of American society has surely played its part. But it seems likely that many former Catholics have abandoned their church (or at least are boycotting it) because of the scandals. The abuse scandals may also be playing a role in this re-paganization — after all, abuse of young boys was a pagan practice that early Christianity condemned and sought to stamp out.

In light of all this, non-Catholic Christians may be increasingly tempted to view Catholicism as a kind of pariah church within global Christianity. But that would not only be uncharitable; it would be unwise. To a great extent, the reputation of the Christian faith itself is besmirched when a large Christian denomination is engulfed in continuing scandals.

3. The Risk to Religious Liberty

When a large corporate body proves unable to govern itself, the chances are high that the government will step in. We saw this when financial institutions considered “too big to fail” were either shuttered by the government or subjected to deeply intrusive government regulation. The Catholic Church is heading towards the same predicament. Unless it can prove, very rapidly, that it is capable of managing its own affairs, it will come under increasing governmental scrutiny and control. Thereby it will pose a danger to the religious liberties of us all.

Already, the American Catholic Church is under the regulatory microscope. We’ve mentioned the stunning grand jury report from Pennsylvania. Attorneys general in five other states — Illinois, New York, Nebraska, New Mexico, Missouri, and now Kentucky — have been quick to take the cue.

These investigations may well reveal problems as deep, intractable, and serious as those discovered in Pennsylvania. That is, the systematic abuse of children was known to be occurring, and no one did anything about it.

Federal and state courts have already been involved, e.g., in diocesan bankruptcy cases. They are now likely to be trying larger numbers of criminal cases related to the abuse scandals, including some against ranking Catholic prelates. There is even a possibility that the Department of Justice may launch an anti-racketeering suit against the American Catholic Church.

Yes, there is a sturdy tradition of religious liberty in this country, and it enjoys constitutional protection in the First Amendment. But in the past several years, that tradition has been weakening, and government has asserted broader power to control decisions that churches once considered their own.

The Obama administration’s “contraception mandate” is a case in point. Given that growing numbers of Americans have severed their affiliations to any religion or church, the public (and the courts) may grow increasingly indifferent to arguments of behalf of religious liberty, and come to regard governmental regulation of all churches with greater acceptance. These trends will be aggravated if the largest American denomination seems scandal-ridden and unable to right itself. That makes the problems of the Catholic Church a matter of the highest concern for us all.

Gazing Into the Abyss

It is absolutely essential that Catholics grasp the depth of this crisis. As we have said, we think it will become as severe and as comprehensive as the crisis of the Protestant Reformation 500 years ago. With remarkable swiftness, Catholicism simply collapsed in what had been Catholic strongholds — most of Germany, Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, England, Scotland, and very nearly France. In recent decades, Catholicism has likewise lost its grip in what had been bastions — like French Canada, Spain, Ireland, and Brazil.

Forty years ago, virtually the entire population of southern Ireland turned out to welcome Pope John Paul II. A few weeks ago, the Irish population essentially shunned the visiting Pope Francis, and the Irish prime minister gave him a stern lecture on his church’s reduced place in that country. What would St. Patrick, who, despite just escaping from slavery in pagan Ireland, returned to the island after hearing the screams of the damned in his dreams, think of the church today?

As goes Ireland, so will go the rest of Roman Catholic Christendom. The church in Germany has been rocked by scandal and there are thousands of known-victims. Already, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is under judgment in Chile, the United States, Australia, France, and Honduras. The crisis has long since gone global.

In fact, as the Catholic scholar Benjamin Wiker has argued, the current crisis is more threatening for the Catholic Church than the Protestant Reformation 500 years ago. For one thing, the Reformation began in a society that was still overwhelmingly Christian. Some historians of the pre-Reformation period even argue that Christian piety was deepening and broadening in the run-up to the Reformation, and that the Christian laity was already assuming a more prominent role in managing church affairs (a development greatly accelerated by Lutherans and Calvinists). But the contemporary Western world seems rapidly to be losing whatever residual Christianity was left in it. That makes a Catholic recovery more problematic.

Second, the internet spreads news of the Catholic crisis within seconds into every house. Everyone knows everything. Pope Francis, who seems to prefer talking about plastics in our oceans over the systemic problem of child abuse, may count on a friendly and collaborative media to ignore or downplay the charges Archbishop Vigano recently brought personally against him. But even if information leaks out drip by drip, the Catholic hierarchy and the Vatican can no longer safely rely on secrecy and on silence to cover their misdeeds.

Just as the printing press was a major force in the spread of the Reformation in Martin Luther’s Germany, so internet journalism (and, who knows, even the mainstream media when the pope is no longer useful to their agenda) will sooner or later force the disclosure of the facts. So it will not do for Catholics simply to say, “We have been through this before. We will make it through again.” In the end, that belief may be vindicated. We sincerely hope it is. But in the meanwhile, they must be energetically fashioning responses that are truly commensurate to this crisis.

Willis L. Krumholz lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is a JD/MBA graduate from the University of St. Thomas, and works in the financial services industry. Robert J. Delahunty is a professor of law at the University of St Thomas and has taught Constitutional Law there for a decade.


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholics; catholicsexscandal; popesexscandal; sexscandal; sexualabuse
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To: boatbums
I strongly reject many doctrines of Roman Catholicism and that is why I remain a non-Catholic Christian. I find that my relationship with Christ and my walk with Him is now MORE holy, MORE faithful, MORE righteous and closer to the Biblical standard than I ever experienced as a Roman Catholic.

Same here.

141 posted on 09/18/2018 10:56:58 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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To: Campion; ealgeone
It's funny how the very same people who accuse us of holding that all Protestants are going to hell also accuse us of being soft on Muslims.

Now what would they base that on? Why are contradictions funny? After years of papal and conciliar teaching such as states that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff, "the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing," "in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors," "whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church," "subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful," "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life but will depart into everlasting fire...unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that..no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church;”

Another council comes along and creates distinct divisions such as by asserting,

there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ," …those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church,” the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation...”

[And even] the Moslems, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God," "They adore one God, living and enduring, merciful and all-powerful, Maker of heaven and earth." Sources

And if you want to engage in the compelled spin to justify this, go ahead.


142 posted on 09/18/2018 11:04:02 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212
Mixing different things. I have not seen any Catholic who said "Protestants are not Christians" or "Protestants are all going to hell," etc. which is what we were talking about.

If you can find one dumb in-DUH-vidual who did say that (and since you have extensive archives, perhaps you will find that errant FReeper who is guilty as charged) they were not saying anything found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a reliable summary of what the Catholic Church teaches. So they may be Catholics, but were not speaking "as Catholics."

As for Protestants holding religious errors: yeah, but that's not necessarily imputable as a damnable heresy. There were blessed Doctors of the Church who were in error about one thing or another, but not as pertinacious heresy. Some of them had gaps in their knowledge. I daresay everybody does.

Or it may be a matter of interpretation. Even James said one is not saved by faith alone. Whatever he meant by that!

143 posted on 09/18/2018 11:33:39 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you: to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Mark17
Yep, I guess us former Catholics are up the proverbial creek.

Except it's not a creek...

    Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb (Revelation 22:1)

    For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.' (Rev. 7:17)

144 posted on 09/18/2018 11:34:12 AM PDT by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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To: daniel1212

My favorite was calling Protestants “Paulistinians” back when several RC’s were calling the Apostle Paul a nut.


145 posted on 09/18/2018 11:41:06 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: daniel1212; Mrs. Don-o; RegulatorCountry
I can actually provide you (and the mod if needed) with links by PM (I have saved a lot of my postings, etc.) to posts by Catholics that made like comments...

I think you're thinking of the same Freepers I'm thinking of. ;o)

146 posted on 09/18/2018 11:47:50 AM PDT by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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To: boatbums

.


147 posted on 09/18/2018 12:05:40 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Campion
Now, non-Roman Catholics can hold to objectively heretical doctrines, but a "heretic" can only be a person who obstinately rejects Catholic doctrine after being a Catholic ("obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth to be believed with divine and Catholic faith" to use the formal terminology).

That is me I am honored to say, as a former weekly Mass-going RC, but who became manifestly born again (1977) with its profound basic changes in heart and life (but not without need for more changing), thru deep repentance and faith in the risen Lord Jesus to save me on His account, by His sinless shed blood. Thanks and glory be to God.

Who remained a weekly Mass-going RC for 6 years and for some time a CCD teacher and lector, seeking those of like faith as I had found, which was rare, and who only left in response to sincere prayer, and into evangelical fellowship. Thus I know both sides.

However, as regards Lumen Gentium 14, “Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved, " while I know of Rome's claim to be necessary as the one true church, I do not know it to be true, but in good faith reject Catholic teaching, thus ecumenical RCS could likely exclude me from being a formal heretic.

Not that this matters to God, whose only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed does not testify to the unique elitist clams of Rome.

As regards your claim that

a "heretic" can only be a person who obstinately rejects Catholic doctrine after being a Catholic ("obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth to be believed with divine and Catholic faith" to use the formal terminology), this refers to formal heresy, and i think it is subject to interpretation as to whether it excludes Protestants who never were Catholic, as well as if it necessarily means a former Catholic-now Prot. is a formal heretic according to Rome.

Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J.: Modern Catholic Dictionary states:

In the Roman Catholic Church, heresy has a very specific meaning. Anyone who, after receiving baptism, while remaining nominally a Christian, pertinaciously denies or doubts any of the truths that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith is considered a heretic. Accordingly four elements must be verified to constitute formal heresy; previous valid baptism, which need not have been in the Catholic Church; external profession of still being a Christian, otherwise a person becomes an apostate; outright denial or positive doubt regarding a truth that the Catholic Church has actually proposed as revealed by God; and the disbelief must be morally culpable, where a nominal Christian refuses to accept what he knows is a doctrinal imperative.

Nothing is said here that restricts the charge of formal heresy to former Caths, nor excludes those who never were Catholic from being formal heretics( according to heretical Rome). There are those who argue if a SB knew and understood but rejects what the Catholic Church teaches as infallible then he would be a formal heretic.

As regards Catholics and what “divine and Catholic faith” means and a denial of it, in some cases this can be difficult. As Canon Law Made Easy explains , let’s be frank: it’s not always immediately clear to anybody which category a particular tenet of our faith falls into. If it falls into the first category, obstinate denial of it constitutes heresy. If it falls into the second or third category, obstinate denial of it is a punishable offense—but it isn’t heresy. In a nutshell, it’s possible for a Catholic to refuse to accept some elements of the Catholic faith without ipso facto being a heretic.

148 posted on 09/18/2018 12:13:30 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: boatbums; daniel1212
So you guys know all about these Catholics, and I don't!

No more cover-ups!

Out with it! Send the names so I can whomp them with my Catechism.

149 posted on 09/18/2018 12:16:16 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you: to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: boatbums
So, I take it you include all us FORMER Roman Catholics in this definition of "formal heretics" and condemn us to hell if we remain outside of the RCC? I strongly reject many doctrines of Roman Catholicism and that is why I remain a non-Catholic Christian. I find that my relationship with Christ and my walk with Him is now MORE holy, MORE faithful, MORE righteous and closer to the Biblical standard than I ever experienced as a Roman Catholic. That is one thing this article seems to have missed. Many became genuine Christians when we left the Catholic church - I never left Jesus Christ or Christianity.

Sorry, but Rome via its prelates cannot give you the assurance it gave to Ted Kennedy. You cannot even get a Catholic church funeral! Actually having one is usually indicative of never having a day of Biblical conversion with its basic profound changes in heart and in life, but of tragically dying in their sins, to their eternal horror.

150 posted on 09/18/2018 12:19:20 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Elsie
Why Vatican II versus the other guys? Why the SSPX guys? Why such amity against your own pope?

For some, because 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)

And they do not like the Francis version of that Pastor.

151 posted on 09/18/2018 12:23:30 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Mixing different things. I have not seen any Catholic who said "Protestants are not Christians" or "Protestants are all going to hell," etc. which is what we were talking about.

How can you dismiss what i provided? What part of

Protestantism is a false religion, belief in one’s self, who have no faith in Christ, no foundation for their superficial understanding of Christianity, who are by inclination vandals, evil fruit, ignorant, biblically illiterate, typically intellectually dishonest, absolutely alien to Christianity, a false religion, a bizarre and false religion, a mass of sheer rot, a heretical brand of Christianity, who completely reject Christ, belief in one’s self, with no foundation for their understanding of Christianity, and who are unable to defend it , do not translate into "Protestants are not Christians" or even "Protestants are all going to hell?"

If you can find one dumb in-DUH-vidual who did say that (and since you have extensive archives, perhaps you will find that errant FReeper who is guilty as charged) they were not saying anything found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church,

Who said they were?

which is a reliable summary of what the Catholic Church teaches.

And subject to some change.

As for Protestants holding religious errors: yeah, but that's not necessarily imputable as a damnable heresy.

But you have different opinions as to what all EENS means, such as states that “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff, "the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing," "in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors," "whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church," "subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful," "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life but will depart into everlasting fire...unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that..no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church;” Sources

Or it may be a matter of interpretation. Even James said one is not saved by faith alone.

Whatever he meant by that! He could not have denied imputed righteousness that Moses and Paul taught, else it would a contradiction, but he meant what Catholics profess by evangelicals have more practiced. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (James 2:18)

152 posted on 09/18/2018 12:36:40 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212

Or from “orthodox” or “Conservative” Judaism, another even deader religion, from which the RCC absorbed its polity and clergyism that points it away from the NT model.


153 posted on 09/18/2018 12:37:59 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: boatbums; Mrs. Don-o
I think you're thinking of the same Freepers I'm thinking of. ;o)

Yet akin to there never has been a bit of anti-protestant bigotry by Catholics here, or threads of Catholics initiating an argument with protestants, Mrs. Don-o cannot see in my quotes anyone who said "Protestants are not Christians" or "Protestants are all going to hell." I suppose the exact quotes are required.

154 posted on 09/18/2018 12:42:05 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212; boatbums
Dear brother Daniel:

"Protestantism is a false religion, belief in one’s self, who have no faith in Christ, no foundation for their superficial understanding of Christianity, who are by inclination vandals, evil fruit, ignorant, biblically illiterate, typically intellectually dishonest, absolutely alien to Christianity, a false religion, a bizarre and false religion, a mass of sheer rot, a heretical brand of Christianity, who completely reject Christ, belief in one’s self, with no foundation for their understanding of Christianity, and who are unable to defend it"

Whew.

Who said that? Whoever it was, they must have some kind of dingbats, because that's not Catholicism. Speaking of dingbats, it sounds like Joseph Smith, but how would I know?

"there never has been a bit of anti-protestant bigotry by Catholics here"

I never said that.

"Mrs. Don-o cannot see in my quotes anyone who said "Protestants are not Christians" or "Protestants are all going to hell."

True. You produced a concatenation vitupration by people neither you nor I have identified. How can you expect me to evaluate that? It does not demonstrate that Catholics told you you are not a Christian or that you are going to hell.

"I suppose the exact quotes are required."

Well, yeah. And who it was, as well.

You seem to be asking me to (1)believe on faith that unidentified people who insulted you at some unidentified time are Catholic. (2) read known Catholics' minds to see if their words inferred more than they actually said, and then (3) select the worst possible interpretation, one which portrays Catholics damning Protestants to hell.

Am I going to do that? Nope.

What would I do that? If that's what the writers believe to be Catholic doctrine, they ought to have said so. If it's unnamed persons extruding their own steaming non-Catholic Road Apples, you'll have to find someone who is the Spokesperson of Non-Catholic Road Apples to analyze their deposit, but that wouldn't be me.

Go over your vast trove of menace and muddle with a finer-tooth comb. Name names (FReepernames) and produce evidence, not inference. I will chase them, down the nights and down the days; I'll chase them, down the arches of the years; I'll chase them, down the labyrinthine ways/ Of their own minds... and buy a couple beers.

It appeals to my Valkyrie spirit. We'd all enjoy that.


You too, my dear boatbums.

155 posted on 09/18/2018 1:45:56 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you: to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Out with it! Send the names so I can whomp them with my Catechism.

Check your FRemail, but "whomp them with my Catechism?" They can just play "that is your interpretation," or that is not all faithful to historical RC teaching. And i think the latter are often correct.

156 posted on 09/18/2018 2:06:55 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: metmom; BillyBoy
Which tons of FR Prots mocked his age and called him the NAZI pope?

I don't believe BillyBoy said there were "tons" of Protestants on FR who called Pope Benedict XVI a Nazi. None the less, you don't deny that there were some who did, do you? Your ping list is a good place to start for those who did.

157 posted on 09/18/2018 2:21:26 PM PDT by Al Hitan
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To: daniel1212

OK. That makes it rather intramural, but if anything interesting comes up, I’ll let you know.


158 posted on 09/18/2018 2:28:00 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you: to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: metmom; BillyBoy
Your ping list is a good place to start for those who did.

As a clarification, before anyone goes into hysterics, I am not claiming that everyone on your ping list did. Only a small number did.

159 posted on 09/18/2018 2:43:22 PM PDT by Al Hitan
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To: Mrs. Don-o; daniel1212
So you guys know all about these Catholics, and I don't! No more cover-ups! Out with it! Send the names so I can whomp them with my Catechism.

All due respect, Mrs. Don-o, but I seriously doubt your "whomps" will deter anyone. More than likely, you will also be accused of heresy for having the temerity of defending non-Catholic Freepers as fellow Christians!

I'll freepmail you names, if you want, but if you are expecting ALL the various posts from all the threads from all the years this has been going on to prove it, you can forget it. I don't keep an ongoing list of the many times it has happened - I don't keep a record of wrongs that others do (I Cor. 13:5). Perhaps you just haven't been sensitive to these kinds of hits up to now, but maybe in the future you might be.

160 posted on 09/18/2018 3:16:20 PM PDT by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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