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To: daniel1212
Hello Daniel1212,
This is an OLD thread. I picked it purposefully because I don't want to draw any attention to my question to you.
I was reading a (contemporary) thread the other day and the the old RCC response ("we're the first Church") remark was made again.
I wanted to learn more about that and I ran across this diagram.

Please, can you let me know if you think this is accurate? Especially irt the apparent timing of the start of the RCC.
Thanks for your time. KR

14 posted on 04/05/2023 6:54:04 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good. )
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To: kinsman redeemer
This is an OLD thread. I picked it purposefully because I don't want to draw any attention to my question to you. I was reading a (contemporary) thread the other day and the the old RCC response ("we're the first Church") remark was made again. I wanted to learn more about that and I ran across this diagram. Please, can you let me know if you think this is accurate? Especially irt the apparent timing of the start of the RCC. Thanks for your time. KR

Well, I cannot provide all the specifics, but it seems overall accurate based on my quite limited knowledge, but I can say that besides many Anabaptists contending that they preceded the Reformation, this tree is misses the split in 451 A.D. of the basic Coptic Church from the Roman Catholic Church, with the former affirming the Nicene Creed but not agreeing with the Christological formulation of the Council of Chalcedon. And led to more splintering.

Another "tree"

httpsen.wikipedia.orgwikiAnabaptism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism)

And as regards the apparent timing of the start of the RCC, there is no specific date for this since it was a matter of progressive deformation which took place beginning with the death of the apostles, though heresies began before. Early Catholicism battled Arianism yet increased resorted to invoking Tradition, likely since Arianism selectively accepted and used Scripture. And rather than sticking to that as the sure supreme standard then Tradition took upon a life of its own. However, while men such as the apostles could speak and write as wholly inspired of God, Rome admits that its popes and councils to do not in declaring what it the word of God. And Catholic and Orthodox substantially disagree somewhat about what Scripture and Tradition teach.

And John evidentially was combating the heretical doctrine of Docetism (associated with the Gnostics) that Jesus had no actual human body (it only appearing to be human) and thus his sufferings and death on the cross were apparent rather than real. The word Docetism is taken from a Greek word meaning “to appear.” Docetism main concept was that Christ only appeared to have a body, that He was a phantom and not a man. It was adopted by the Ebionites (Jewish Christian) and the Gnostics (Gentile Christians).

Early Catholicism battled this yet adopted the fantasy of their Eucharistic Christ, which (after their priest utters "This is my body....blood") only appears to be bread and wine (which have ceased to exist) - despite appearance - but are really the true body and blood of Christ, complete in each particle. Until the non-existent bread and or wine begins to manifest (appearance now being critical, since in reality decay has been ongoing at the molecular level).

And Rome and Catholicism also began to take upon the form of the empire in which it stood, and to use its means. See https://peacebyjesus.net/deformation_of_new_testament_church.html#historical

Yet since the apostasy of Catholicism was not complete, but amidst its inventions the salvific truth of the gospel remains and one need not know much to be saved, then since "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit" (Psalms 34:18) who believes and will confess the Divine Lord Jesus, that Christ died for us and that God hath raised him from the dead, (Romans 10:9) then a remnant of regenerate of simple contrite faith and piety did and can exist. And since regeneration is how the NT church has its members, (1 Cor. 12:13) then the church still persevered as the body of Christ, as a relative remnant it still is. To the glory and praise of God.

Hope this helps. http://peacebyjesus.net

15 posted on 04/06/2023 4:01:17 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him who saves, be baptized + follow Him!)
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