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To: fishtank

If I understand it correctly, an indulgence is a prepaid get-out-of-jail free card for one or more future sins.

If my understanding is correct, then an Indulgence cheapens the purpose of holy living.

In reality, 1 John 1 + 1 John 2 make it clear we continue to sin and if we can confess that then we are cleansed by Jesus.

I would be extremely reluctant to let go of that promise.


5 posted on 06/29/2018 12:52:43 PM PDT by xzins (Retired US Army chaplain. Support our troops by praying for eir victory.)
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To: xzins

No.


7 posted on 06/29/2018 1:15:17 PM PDT by sitetest (No longer mostly dead.)
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To: xzins
I like your posts, xzins --- you're a person of good will --- and this is a subject that perplexes many people, including Catholics. So I don't mind providing some clarifications for you.

"If I understand correctly, an indulgence is a prepaid 1
get-out-of-jail free card 2
...for one or more future sins3.
[So] Indulgence cheapens the purpose of holy living4.
In reality, 1 John 1 + 2 make it clear we continue to sin and if we can confess that then we are cleansed by Jesus. 5
I would be extremely reluctant to let go of that promise. 6


1. This was in fact a flagrant money-making biz for instance when St. Peter's Basilica was being built. But that's an abuse. It is, and always has been, a sin to exchange any sort of spiritual goods for money --- the sin of simony --- and those who did this (Pope Leo X together with his notorious "salesmen" like Johann Tetzel) were rightly rebuked at the time, and to this day are regarded as early-Renaissance scoundrels, not as saints.

In other words, what you are objecting to in this case, was not the use, but the abuse of indulgences.

2. An indulgence is not about get-out-of-jail-free, but a way to help each other by prayers and charitable practices, and as a kind of spiritual repair work. Briefly, the ancient, and more severe ecclesiastical penalties (such as months or years of public penance for a grave sin -- armed robbery, murder, sodomy, apostasy) were replaced with much more lenient acts of devotion (like going on a pilgrimage, repairing a church, supporting orphans.) This is not for the forgiveness of past sins. This is for sins that have already been repented, confessed and forgiven.

3. Indulgences have nothing to do with future sins. Repentance and God's forgiveness are preconditions for indulgences, since you can't repent of something you're going to do in the future, and you can't receive any sort of spiritual good unless you is in a state of sanctifying grace. All of this is Christ's work on the Cross. All of this is guaranteed to the repentant sinner, who receives forgiveness and grace as a gift, just as the "Good Thief" did. Eternal punishment has been completely washed away by the blood of Christ crucified.

4. Gaining an indulgence actually manifests a commitment to holy living. It is balancing the scales of justice after forgiveness by being an outward sign of one's inward change of mind (metanoia) and doing good to repair the harm you've done (e.g. charitable work to repair one's previous works of avarice.)

It repairs temporal damage and remits temporal punishment. Again, this is only an analogy, but it's like an apology, a statement of remorse and a stint of community service instead of jail.

Matthew 3:8
Bear fruit worthy of repentance.

4. To use an analogy to human justice, we understand that one who has been forgiven must still "pay a debt to society." If a couple of teens got drunk, started tossing lighted matches here and there and burned down a forest, even if they're forgiven, maybe they should give $10,000 to the National Park Service? Give 100 talks at schools against drunkenness and playing with fire? Plant 100,000 trees?

5. This is not letting go of God's promise of forgiveness. It is part of acknowledging the harm done by one's sins, the justice of God's punishments, and the reality of one's change of heart.

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.


11 posted on 06/29/2018 3:19:43 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you: to act justly, to love tenderly, and to walk humbly with your God)
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To: xzins; fishtank
Martin Luther's main objection to Indulgences was:

    Then in addition, the very profusion of indulgences astonishingly fills up the measure of servile righteousness. Through these nothing is accomplished except that the people learn to fear and flee and dread the penalty of sins, but not the sins themselves. Therefore, the results of indulgences are too little seen but we do see a great sense of self-security and licentious sinning; so much so that, if it were not for the fear of the punishment of sins, nobody would want these indulgences, even if they were free; whereas the people ought rather to be exhorted to love the punishment and embrace the cross. Would that I were a liar when I say that indulgences are rightly so called, for to indulge means to permit, and indulgence is equivalent to impunity, permission to sin, and license to nullify the cross of Christ. Or, if indulgences are to be permitted, they should be given only to those who are weak in faith, that those who seek to attain gentleness and lowliness through suffering, as the Lord here says, may not be offended. For, not through indulgences, but through gentleness and lowliness, so says he, is rest for your souls found. But gentleness is present only in punishment and suffering, from which these indulgences absolve us. They teach us to dread the cross and suffering and the result is that we never become gentle and lowly, and that means that we never receive indulgence nor come to Christ. Oh, the dangers of our time! Oh, you snoring priests! Oh, darkness deeper than Egyptian! How secure we are in the midst of the worst of all our evils! (LW 51:31-33).

43 posted on 06/29/2018 7:07:40 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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