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To: Mrs. Don-o
(Aside on Duterte: It seems to me that you are approaching Duterte's posited "Catholicism" as a de jure judgment. I didn't claim that I had the authority to excommunicate anybody or to pronounce any kind of ecclesiastical penalty de jure, I say, that in fact a person who publicly curses God (blasphemy), renounces the truths of the Faith (apostasy), or who adheres to a non-Christian religion (heresy) is de facto post-Catholic or anti-Catholic. I would argue as well for any such person being excommunicated latae sentenciae, but canon law is actually not something I know a whole lot about. (One of my many areas of ignorance.) Anyway, since he has publicly, flamboyantly cursed God (blasphemy), I would say it's solidly probable that this is true of Duterte. )

You can say what wish, but it remains that Rome is the one who interprets canon law, which Scripturally is manifest by what they do. And thus one is "de facto post-Catholic or anti-Catholic" unless Rome manifests that this is their judgment. And given her affirmation of Teddy K Catholics and even Chavez, what i said is warranted, that we can expect Rome would call and treat Duterte a son of the church at death, without any manifest repentance,.

And the judgment of your leadership is what you are to follow, without public dissent, versus being essentially Protestant in judging your church based upon your interpretation of what she teaches and protesting it publicly.

76 posted on 06/26/2018 8:01:30 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212
Following God's law, or an objective sense of moral reality: is that "being essentially Protestant in judging your church based upon your interpretation of what she teaches and protesting it publicly"?

No. The administration of the Church is subordinate to God's law, and not the other way around. That is not distinctively Protestant: it goes back to the NT and the earliest days of Catholicism.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!"

What we've got going on here is a nearly unprecedented situation:

First, a pope who opposes the papal magisterium. Huh. Full stop. Take a deep breath.

Which is to say, he upholds things that would not have been accepted by the prophets of Israel or the Fathers of the Church, let alone by any of his predecessors nor any canonized saint.

And second, following this disoriented shepherd at the top, we've got wolves inside the sheepfold ravaging whomever they can grab, and scattering the rest.

Not that this all originated on March 13, 2013 with Tio_Hagan_Lio@Rome. Christopher Dawson (LINK) says the Church goes through a period of ass-over-elbows about every 300 years. Things had slid badly in the late '60's-early 70's, to sum up the history of this unsettled seventh cycle in one breath. But the beginning of this pontificate was a true watershed, and a very ominous one.

I may be surprised, but none of this is taking God by surprise. All this is in accordance with prophecy.

To get back to the question of what the Catholic Hierarchy of the Philippines will do upon the death of Dutarte, I do not know. God's mercy being powerful, Dutarte could repent. Or the bishops could act on the grace of their vocation and judge with justice. For this we pray. We'll see, won't we?

But if you opined that the Catholic Church would be much more credible if our Catholic hierarchs would think like Catholics, talk like Catholics and act like Catholics, we will agree. The Church would be immeasurably better off; and all the world.

77 posted on 06/27/2018 7:25:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is. Yogi Berra)
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