Thank you for the full quote. What I emphasized was the written use of the name Catholic Church as opposed to the name was changed by Constantine 300 years later from an erroneous previous post. It is too bad that instead of staying focused on the comment and responding, you attempt to ignore the main comment.
Again, if you read my original post, I stated that the actual name was the “Catholic Church” and not the Roman Catholic Church. Yes even the Catholics use this name as it has become a common way to identify the Catholic Church. Catholics are not opposed to be referred to as Roman Catholics. The Pope is the Bishop of the Roman diocese. There is a history of derogatory comments. I do apologize if I implied that protestants were the first to use the term Roman Catholic Church.
There is a lot of misinformation posted by many here on the Catholic Faith, including that the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is earned by works.
Are we saved by faith alone? No way! As we saw before, in Matthew 19:16-19, Jesus himself said to a rich young man who had asked him what he needed to do to have eternal life:
… If you would enter life, keep the commandments… You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Or, how about Matthew 12:36-37? Here, Jesus says:
I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
That sounds like there is more to this justification thing than faith alone.
We believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them. But it is not true that man plays as important a role as God. God the Father planned our salvation, not man. God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things. And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5). This is beyond our human ability. Still, we must cooperate with God’s grace to find eternal happiness with God. If we don’t, we will be cut off from God forever.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-salvation-an-act-or-a-process
We do believe that works are evidence of true faith, but that is not the only role they play. Works also play a role in our final justification. If we take Paul’s statements about Abraham being justified by faith in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3–4 and put them together with James’s statement about Abraham being justified by his work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21, we rightly conclude that salvation is a process with many points of justification along the path to heaven.
Jesus Himself said that by believing we are saved.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered him,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 20:30-31 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Sanctification is the process by which we become more conformed to the character of Christ and is a process in which obedience to God plays a role.
Catholicism's problem is that it conflates salvation with sanctification.
It also chooses to ignore the difference between salvation and the rewards we are promised when we get to heaven.
The rewards for obedience can be gained of lost through works but that does NOT affect the salvation.
Salvation is not the reward for obedience.
The reward is not salvation, it is crowns that we give back to Jesus.
Catholics also like to take credit for their contribution to salvation and yet we are told in Scripture that works are not part of getting saved and the reason is that so no man can boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
It's not even our desire to do what's right, it's God who puts it in our hearts in the first place.
Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
We can't even come to Him unless He draws us.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness LONG before Isaac was even born.
The argument about Abraham being righteous because of his work offering up Isaac is totally unfounded because he couldn't have offered up the son that didn't yet exist when God declared him righteous.
No. You wrongly attempted to pass off a quote to advance your position.
If, and it's a big if, you were attempting to emphasize the Catholic aspect of the quote you would have been better served to have quoted as follows:
"Wherever the bishop appears ...there is the catholic church.
However, even that rendering changes the meaning of the quote. The meaning of the quote is where Christ is there is the catholic [not Roman] church. That is to say, the body of believers professing belief in Him.
Again, if you read my original post, I stated that the actual name was the “Catholic Church” and not the Roman Catholic Church. Yes even the Catholics use this name as it has become a common way to identify the Catholic Church. Catholics are not opposed to be referred to as Roman Catholics. The Pope is the Bishop of the Roman diocese. There is a history of derogatory comments. I do apologize if I implied that protestants were the first to use the term Roman Catholic Church.
Yet that was your statement as noted in your post #86:
Also please document the “Roman Church” or acknowledge that this is just a protestant nickname..
Your apology is duly noted and accepted. I do respect someone who will admit error.
I will say in fairness though you are not the only RC to have made this claim.
There is a lot of misinformation posted by many here on the Catholic Faith, including that the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is earned by works.
Yes...as has been witnessed on this thread.
Are we saved by faith alone? No way! As we saw before, in Matthew 19:16-19, Jesus himself said to a rich young man who had asked him what he needed to do to have eternal life:
… If you would enter life, keep the commandments… You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Context ADSUM...context. Jesus knew the young man had not kept the commandments. He was emphasizing the necessity of following Him...and not the Law as a means of salvation. All of those things the young man had done, He dismissed and said to follow Him....not continue to keep the Law.
The New Testament is clear it is by faith we have eternal life.
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 NASB
John, more than the other writers of the Gospels, emphasizes belief in Him for salvation.
An interesting exercise is to do a word study on believe. Biblegateway.com is an excellent resource for this. Multiple versions of the NT are available for study.
We believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them.
A person is saved as much as they are going to be saved when they follow Christ. There is no additional salvation one gains. I will agree the fellowship/relationship aspect of this grows...or should grow.
The moment we profess faith in Christ, or as Paul notes in Romans 10, "whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
The Greek rendering of the verb for "will be saved" is in the future indicative. Without going into all the detail, though I will be glad to provide for you, your salvation is a done deal.
But it is not true that man plays as important a role as God.
Our only role is to believe.
God the Father planned our salvation, not man. God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things.
Concur 100%.
And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5). This is beyond our human ability.
Concur 100%.
It is interesting you use Romans 5:5. If you go on to read the rest of the chapter, especially in the Greek, Paul is clear we are saved only through the actions of God. There is nothing we are able to do outside of believe. Again, the Greek behind all of this really brings this aspect of the passage into clarity.
Still, we must cooperate with God’s grace to find eternal happiness with God. If we don’t, we will be cut off from God forever.
Cooperate? There is nothing we can do to equal the Cross. No good deed comes close to the Cross.
Paul considered everything he'd done to be as rubbish in relation to knowing Christ.
Now, if you mean to gain a closer fellowship with Him I would agree to that.
When a person "calls upon the name of the Lord" they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13-14; 4:30). I find no place in the NT where a believer is ever unsealed.
In the passage above from John 5:24 Jesus is making an offer that is not taken away.
We are either saved or we are not saved.
I will admit that because of sin we may not "feel" like we are saved. But that is a trick by the enemy to get us to deny the promises of Christ.
We do believe that works are evidence of true faith
Agree.
Paul notes this in Ephesians 2:8-10.
, but that is not the only role they play. Works also play a role in our final justification. If we take Paul’s statements about Abraham being justified by faith in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3–4 and put them together with James’s statement about Abraham being justified by his work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21, we rightly conclude that salvation is a process with many points of justification along the path to heaven.
Recall righteousness had already been credited to Abraham prior to his willingness to offer up Isaac. He was at that moment of belief saved...because he believed God.
Paul in Romans on Abraham...
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” Romans 4:1-3 NASB.
You have to include v2 to correctly understand the passage.
Both Paul and James cite the same verse in Genesis....And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.
We have to understand how the two writers were using justification to understand the passage in question. They're arguing opposite sides of the same coin.
What if Abraham had not been willing to offer Isaac? Still saved?
Yes.
Recall also the example of Rahab the prostitute. She had believed in God before helping the messengers. Her faith was justified in her subsequent actions.
I will agree that as believers in Christ we are to produce fruit (works if you will) for the Kingdom of God. That is a clear teaching of the NT. But the fruit is evidence of something that has happened on the inside of us....belief in Christ.
You can do a lot of "good things" and not have salvation in Christ. All those things will not save you.
But if you are a follower of Christ, that is a believer in Him, you will produce fruit. But it is the belief in Him that saves you.
Some will produce a little fruit....others a whole bunch...but they are both still saved.
An interesting question....what if Peter had died the day after the crucifixion? He has not had a chance to do any of the things he later did. Not one sermon preached. No witness to the Jews. He had on more than one occasion professed belief in Christ.
Is he still saved?
Ephesians 2. We are saved by grace through faith not works. No way to make it say anything else.
We are not saved by our works unless you want to call St. Paul a liar.